British Gymnastics and lack of safeguarding for girls

British Gymnastics appear to be all round arseholes in more ways than one.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/british-gymnastics-accused-of-trying-to-eradicate-rivals-pd6j9qsxk

I really hope UK Gymnastics win this one, anybody know what their safeguarding is like?

No, it’s almost like they’re getting paid big sums to proceed as if what they know is true isn’t true.

Everyone insists that all the reasons why we separate teenage girls and boys for changing, sleeping etc don’t apply when a boy says”I am trans”. Nobody has been able to explain why though.

It's almost as though they think we separate girls and boys because girls' brains are different from boys' brains. Not because girls' bodies are different from boys' bodies.

And it is probably a complete coincidence, and not relevant at all, but David Challenor had an association with gymnastics. I think he was a coach.

OMFG has anybody heard of safeguarding in this country? Did the whole Savile thing just pass people by?

I saw this reported on Sky News this morning, around 7am in the Papers review l believe. The reporter was incensed by this. Couldn’t believe l was hearing a reporter speaking so strongly against this, she totally got it.

There's also the question of trans boys - if, say, a 14yo girl was transitioning to a boy, would they be allowed to change with, and compete against a cohort of 14yo boys?

If not, why not? After all, the realities of the body are irrelevant to gender identity (obsessed with genitals? Transphobe!) and the other 14yo boys would in no way whatsoever stare/comment/be a threat to a female-bodied boys, oh no.

But if the trans boy continued to change and compete with girls, for (obvious) reasons of safety and fairness, that of course exposes the whole frigging charade.

Funny though, haven't seen this mentioned anywhere. All about the rights of the male-bodied girls.

And it is probably a complete coincidence, and not relevant at all, but David Challenor had an association with gymnastics. I think he was a coach.

And someone made the point that girls are not allowed to wear anything under their leotard - so getting changed involves getting naked.

Here is a previous thread about it.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3363538-AIBU-in-thinking-British-Gymnastics-new-guidelines-are-disadvantaging-girls-and-putting-them-in-danger

Male gymnasts would still trump women on vault, beam and floor

Well, it would be quite interesting to see a male gymnast on the beam, you know, when they slip and land on their groin (to put i delicately) as I've seen quite a lot of female gymnasts do. Good luck with that move trans women.....

hermione

Exactly.

It’s either “well they’re a girl” (which doesn’t deal with your point at all) or it’s because once a trans person is in play, affirming their identity and being “inclusive” is paramount, and to suggest that any else’s feelings should be considered is transphobic.

There is no rational answer to your point.

Everyone insists that all the reasons why we separate teenage girls and boys for changing, sleeping etc don’t apply when a boy says”I am trans”. Nobody has been able to explain why though.

Can someone please enlighten me?

Does this policy extend to coaches and helpers like the Girl Guides one does, so that a coach or volunteer could self ID as a woman or vice versa? Would parents have to be told if a volunteer accompanying children to a competition had self identified as the opposite sex? Someone might remember from previous threads.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD, Rhythmic Gymnastics and Synchronised Swimming are both demanding disciplines that require dedication and training, as well as ability. Google some YouTubes of the training.

I would love to see males in Rhythmic Gymnastics and in Synchronised Swimming. There is absolutely no reason why they should not be included, both as an individual category of their own and in mixed teams. But I want to see them participating as men, honestly and in the spirit of sporting competition.

There is no reason why the men's floor exercise should not be more dance like, should not be to music. There is no reason why the women's floor exercise has to be performed to music and has to include all the prancing and arched posing. Arched posing is a sexual message, and should really have no place in a sporting display. But, yet again, the double standard applies: the men's category focuses on displaying strength and solidity, whereas the women's category has also to display dainty 'feminine' availability.

It seems to be gaslighting of the highest order.

Welcome to the Brave New World where everyone is happy.

Male gymnasts would still trump women on vault, beam and floor. Modern elite gymnastics is heavily skewed towards difficulty rather than execution.

Simone Biles (who is currently extremely dominant) won last year’s world championship by a large margin, despite falling twice, because her difficulty is so much higher than her competitors.

You don’t need to be particularly artistic on floor if your difficulty is high - the Americans have another competitor who almost totally lacks artistry but is successful internationally due to her tumbling difficulty.

Despite this, Biles’ most difficult skills (vault and floor) are regularly competed by middling non-medal contending men. So it’s entirely feasible that men could dominate with difficulty in women’s events.

In wake of the Nassar and other scandals the FIG have set up a new ethics committee.
www.gymnastics.sport/site/news/displaynews.php?idNews=2375

gymnasticsethicsfoundation.org/index.php
Might be worth including them in any complaint.

Sanches posted on the long running British gymnastics thread the other day. It hasn't been posted on since September. I think this news story has been picked up from here.

Have British Gymnastics consulted their liability insurers? Are the coaches and volunteer chaperones indemnified? Have they been advised of their potential liability exposure in the event of a lawsuit for damages? All coaches and volunteers should require that British Gymnastics provide them documentation that they themselves are covered by British Gymnastics insurance policy, and therefore will be provided legal defence, in the event of a lawsuit.

This. If I were a parent, I would be making work for them demanding evidence of all this.

I suspect Sanchez Manning has been sitting on that article for some time, waiting for the right to publish. And then along came Martina....😁 Perfect timing.

And this! Clever move, Sanchez!

Why do male bodied persons ALWAYS trump girls? I just cannot understand how the transgender organizations can advise all these sports and schools and girl guides etc. that they are NOT ALLOWED to inform parents when their girls are sleeping overnight in the same space as a male bodied individual. How is that legal?

It seems to be gaslighting of the highest order.

Have British Gymnastics consulted their liability insurers? Are the coaches and volunteer chaperones indemnified? Have they been advised of their potential liability exposure in the event of a lawsuit for damages? All coaches and volunteers should require that British Gymnastics provide them documentation that they themselves are covered by British Gymnastics insurance policy, and therefore will be provided legal defence, in the event of a lawsuit.

This!

Does this need to be cross-posted into the extra curricular activities thread where the 'gym mums' hand out?

Do it.

It’s a massive safeguarding risk. I don’t know why British Gymnastics can’t see this.

I think male strength might well be useful on bars. I know men do the high bar, or whatever it's called, but I suppose those skills would transfer to the uneven bars?

My daughter is a member of British Gymnastics and I was furious when we got the guidelines. But she is not at the level where she would be travelling to an event without me, so on a personal level I can keep her safe.

But I do think this needs challenged, as someone needs to keep other girls safe.

Girl guides and also British Gymnastics clearly putting young girls at risk-the public are horrified-it’s so clear that standard safeguarding goes out the window when trans is mentioned.....the more publicity this gets, the better.

And of course it’s safeguarding. Older kids/young men - how often do you hear that they are actually ‘lesbian’? And retain their tackle?

Ok so. How many lesbians have been convicted of rape? I’d say, very very few (there was a case I saw which was orettt weird where a woman ‘tricked’ her friend into believing that she was a man etc).

So... you have a male ‘lesbian’ with the equipment to rape. He’s too young to have hormones or any medical intervention (Dr Wobbly aside) Changing with girls and young women. Full of male hormones and fancying girls. Nature taking its course. What could possibly go wrong? Will they need to have chaperones in the changing rooms now? Can these also be self IDing male lesbians then? Oh no, nothing could possibly go wrong in that scenario can it?

I hope to god their insurance is fully paid up.