McKinnon targeting Kelly Holmes

MeAgainAgain ^www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6784175/Dame-Kelly-Holmes-receives-backlash-objecting-trans-athletes-competing-against-women.html^

comments quiet ....

Then there's THIS guy. On THIS article. I can't even begin to fathom how he clicked this link, and even if he only read every third word, STILL thought this was a valid question to ask...

I feel a bit sorry that his rank stupidity is now stuck on the internet forever.

I think the idea is that "cis" women and girls would need to form a barrier between the transwomen and the men.

Example as per "Burger" by Travis of the top shop changing rooms -

Someone threw a burger at him.
He lamented that not ONE WOMAN stepped in to defend him.
No mention of any men who could have done that.

Also see.
Transwomen asking for "cis" women to
Stand in front on them at protests to protect them
Donate to funds to pay for them to get cabs home after nights out as it's not safe for TW and they can't even imagine what that's like (!!!)

etc and so on

Here’s a question.

So, to the male bodied person (who says they are a woman) hammering hard on the door to gain access to a woman only space.

How do they feel about sharing with men then if the rules changed to outlaw single sex spaces? No? Why not?

Comments are now at 199 on that article

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6784175/Dame-Kelly-Holmes-receives-backlash-objecting-trans-athletes-competing-against-women.html

comments quiet but usual mra saying why discriminate between men and women at all

The targeting of Dame Kelly is in the daily mail (sorry can’t do a link).

I see comic relief donated to her charity last year (and Allsorts).

No -

That post had some really dodgy commentary and as PP said, an agenda.

Not the right thing to do to let it slide at all.

Most people just ignored the 'is she, isn't she' speculation and got on with discussing the topic. Now we'll just have more and more people bringing the issue of her sexuality up again, if only to say how uncomfortable the discussion many hours ago has made them feel.

Mutola was a fantastic athlete and, like all the amazing women who are currently speaking out, competed at a time when compulsory sex verification tests were still in place.

Yeah, scrolling back I don't see any reason for discussion of whether she and Maria Mutola were together, much less Maria's own appearance.

I'm really uncomfortable with the post on here about Kelly's sexual it and in particular about the looks of her exes.

Me too MeAgainAgain. The post from last night or early morning was particularly unpleasant and I had a strong sense of some nasty agenda behind it.

Yeah. RMK does that one a lot. Plenty of black feminists have pointed out how offensive it is to link them to males in that way, especially given the way that black women have often been treated. RMK doesn't give a shit though.

Isn’t colour often dragged up as an argument? ‘You want to ban trans people from xyz - it’s like banning black people from abc!’. Looney.

Personally I do think Kelly being black is relevant, because McKinnon has a history of whitesplaining. So the targeting of a black woman needs to be seen in that context. However I am white myself so I appreciate that there may be nuance to this I am missing.

I thought Kelly discussed her relationship on Woman's Hour a few weeks ago? I remember her talking about her alpacas and about her experiences in the military as well. What an amazing woman she is, I sat in the car for ages after I parked to listen to the whole interview. Truly inspiring and with the most infectious laugh, I must have looked like a loon laughing along with her in a parked car!! Definitely worth a listen.

I am uncomfortable also about Kellys orientation being discussed as she is a very private person. I think people who have posted on it should report their posts and withdraw them.

The main thing for me is that it has been fab to be reminded how awesome these British women athletes are. Their achievements are extraordinary. And how strong and together they are as people also.

So he is telling lesbians to ‘think themselves straight’. Oh well that’s ok then.

Agree: race, sexuality, looks, all totally irrelevant. What matters is female biology. The TRA lobby want to deflect the discussion onto looks (misogynistic beliefs about women), sexuality (hideously lesbophobic comments about the cotton ceiling), race (hideously racist comments othering black and ethnic minority women). But that's their hideous behaviour.

We should stick to the actual point in hand, which is "is it fair to insist biologically female competitors compete against biologically male competitors?"

(The motor racing thing is also a side issue, because surely motor racing should be one of those sports where sex doesn't matter, and the fact that it does is evidence of sexism. I know there's an argument about whether women's neck muscles hold up to the g-forces, but surely in a time when the RAF has women flying fast jets in combat situations, that one should have been knocked on the head by now.)

@citykat
TRAs will endlessly deny the existence of this proverbial cotton ceiling. That may be true they tend to avoid using the phrase.
But the coersion and nasty rapey rhetoric against lesbians for our sexuality remains. Go check out the twitter feed of Alex Sharpe (professor?! Alex Sharpe of Keele University) again yesterday trying to lesbians into "reflect in their preferences" and inferring we are as bad as racists for our sexuality. I am both angry and upset in equal measure.
Quite how trans activists can be so openly homophobic without censure shows how idiotic Twitter has become.
twitter.com/AlexSharpe64/status/1103282983522484226?s=20

I agree @MeAgainAgain - it's irrelevant to the discussion, even if it is supposedly common knowledge.

Another who is uncomfortable about the discussion of Holmes's sexual orientation.

And about her skin colour.

All that is relevant is her sporting ability and her speaking out about transwomen competing against women.

I'm really uncomfortable with the post on here about Kelly's sexual it and in particular about the looks of her exes.

It's certainly not 'common knowledge' and I don't see how Kelly going out with a woman who doesn't look feminine (by whose standards?) is in any way ironic.

Yes that post really does come across as nasty and adds nothing to this conversation.

I got a very jolly "thanks we will pass on to the relevant team, we love feedback" message from Specialized. Reckon they won't be liking the feedback this week though.
I am not steeped in this like many of you. But this morning I learnt what the 'cotton ceiling' is. I am dumbstruck. Cannot understand how this has happened. It's bizarre. Oh and I am not cis. I'm just the normal type.

Anybody just watched GMB - just had a trans woman racing driver on (Charlie Wilson?). Had a discussion about competing in a race where men and women are in the same race. All very measured and interesting. However they went onto to talk about top female athletes objecting about trans women competing in women's event. Charlie looked a bit uncomfortable but eventually said (paraphrasing) that IOC guidelines were drawn up taking account of medical knowledge etc and that we should heed them rather than the misguided athletes. Also said that as a trans woman she had no testosterone and so there was no advantage. No mention of the height and reach etc.

Ben Shepherd seemed to know Charlie. They have appeared together in one of his shows that features an obstacle course. And how she was the only person who has crossed the course first go and how phenomenal that was. It seemed to be from the angle of a woman being that good. Except Charlie is a tall person who was a man so it is all gaslighting.

I think GMB are perhaps trying to present a different angle, the more acceptable face of transgender. Charlie is a beautiful looking person, who looks like a woman, it's like they wanted to get away from the obvious disparity presented by RM and some of her colleagues.

I asked my DH last night who has been very supportive of trans issues what he thought about this. He said that of course trans women should not compete in women's events as it would be completely unfair, so the message is getting out there.