RM being interviewed on R4 PM today

That matches my experience buzzbobbly. Have you ever tried to point out to a trans ally that many trans people don't have gender dysphoria?* Saying this tends to go down very badly indeed.

• Prevalence of gender dysphoria - around 0.01%, prevalence of trans - around 0.5%. Other figures are available but the discrepancy is clear.

I would imagine the majority, if not the vast majority, of the uninformed public think "trans" means post-operative transsexual or committed to that as a goal.

This is exactly the problem I have found when raising it with friends. They all immediately refer straight back to the "well I know one/some/lots of trans people and they are all perfectly lovely" anecdata problem.

Which leads me back into my (previously made here) complaint that I have to preface every statement with reams of caveats and explanations, by which point they've already written off the discussion, thinking I'm being horrible about their nice friend.

I would imagine the majority, if not the vast majority, of the uninformed public think "trans" means post-operative transsexual or committed to that as a goal.

If they're aware of "gender fluid" teens they probably somehow keep these as separate concepts.

Don't forget, to most of the outside world, "trans" = their local perfectly reasonable, friendly full sex change transsexual, no harm to anyone

I don't know if that's true. I think some may think surgery, but how many think transvestite?

buzzbobbly

I agree. If one is not aware of the background, and all the other nonsense that McKinnon spouts, and one doesn't know the science, one might believe that some new discovery has been made.

Anyone who understands marketing or public speaking or indeed, all manner of different ways of persuading people, knows that conviction counts for a lot. At least as much as the actual words you're saying.

And you can't fault McKinnon's conviction.

Fortunately they have conviction over things that no one on the planet will accept.

The wait, what? moment will come.

And yes, Sharron's clear and articulate commonsense is a relief after that word salad you're not sure you've properly understood.

There is absolutely no doubt that very many people think it might be possible to change sex. That a sex change operation is exactly that. That there is science to support the born in the wrong body nonsense.

The mundane truth of it sometimes comes as something of a surprise. But always a bit of a relief, in my opinion.

I am glad they mentioned the whole ‘you won’t debate’ thing. Says a lot.

Datun

I think RM came across as pretty reasonable and very well-informed actually - bearing in mind the uninformed audience.

HOWEVER: Sharron Davies then came along and spoke like a human, and one we all know and love as one of our sporting champions. I think she had a far greater impact with clear words and concepts, than the science RM banged on about (when they weren't expecting a personal phone call from the Olympic President!).

Listening now, RMK is a liar plain and simple.

Also how the BBC can not challenge someone saying “we have data” but then not providing even a reference to it, is incredibly poor journalism.

buzzbobbly

McKinnon has an assertive way of speaking which lends the nonsense they say a bit of authority. However, Sharron's response is so, out of the ballpark, credible that most people will be agreeing with her.

Also, you have to remember, that we and the feminists on Twitter have been doing this for years. The general public is coming at this fresh.

Fortunately, McKinnon is so wild that they will fast forward the public to where we are fairly swiftly I believe.

It won't take long. The fact that McKinnon won't debate live. The fact they actually want to remove all criteria and let men compete as women after saying some magic words. The fact that they are busy trying to rubbish Kelly Holmes to her sponsors, etc.

We know transactivists have no real argument and have to fight dirty.

It just needs to play out.

They'll be discussing the science behind this tomorrow apparently. I wonder who they'll have on

(My prev post on the basis of not having refreshed the thread for some time, obviously...

Will Listen Again as soon as I can)

I have a nasty feeling that it won't be quite as peaking as so many of you hope.

If RM has their way (nobly aided and abetted by the BBC), it will be portrayed as women being against women, yadda yadda, feminazis anti-women, man-hating, deserve everything they get.

Don't forget, to most of the outside world, "trans" = their local perfectly reasonable, friendly full sex change transsexual, no harm to anyone, . Not this type of individual.

That is fucking offensive towards Sharron D.

RM suggesting that SD and RM both pass the eyeball test! In the same way. Clearly not seeing what we women see.

Puts a whole new slant on Mirror mirror on the wall who’s the FAIRest of them all!

Good for Sharon Davies - I thought she sounded really measured, and good for her for pointing out all the untruths that otherwise would have been taken at face value.

I saw an article yesterday saying that the BBC are being investigated by OFCOM for a perceived decline in impartiality within their news and current affairs programmes. Whilst I know it's mainly about politics, I do hope their constant pushing of trans agenda gets looked at too.

Maybe RM merely sought the women's podium and thought no-one would care?

Good Lord, Mckinnon came across as unhinged.

Deciding that he and Sharron look alike?

Get Debbie! Get Miranda! Get Ffion!

Why do I keep hearing mcK on the radio?!!

Still, I thought they were giving RMcK a much easier time than SD. RMcK "didn't seek the spotlight" - ludicrous!

• Davies

RMcK recorded interview just been played on Today BBC R4 08.35 ish. They then had Sharron Davis on refuting it all, and doing a damn good job.

Been in a rabbit hole looking at RM's Twitter.

Ah yes. The Echo Chamber of Wank.

Been in a rabbit hole looking at RM's Twitter. Saw someone earlier commenting how few likes and replies the tweets get and it's true. There is a lot of tweeting going on though. Ranting, mostly.

Since RM has close to 75K people on their blocklist, it's not surprising they don't get much response.