Bloody hell BBC

Anyway my point was that I strongly disagree with how Autumn's parents are going about supporting her, or at least Autumn's Mum as we don't have Dad's side.

@OldCrone there is a difference between giving birth and being a mother though. You can be a mother in lots of way - stepmother, adoptive mother (both at any age DC not just baby), child born through surrogacy etc

By draw the line I meant would you say a female who is infertile but adopted isn't a motherm? Would you say for a lesbian couple only one of them can be mother because biologically the child only comes from one of them?

@BettyDuMonde but there's a difference between looking ridiculous as a female and looking ridiculous as a male.

Why isn't Autumn's mother - or anyone else - explaining to Autumn that they will never be a mother because it is biologically impossible? And that a heterosexual man is going to be very uninterested in marrying Autumn because Autumn won't have working female genitals? And that probably a gay man won't be interested either, because Autumn will look like a woman?

I would never, ever say an adoptive mother isn't a real mother - but given the level of magical thinking and glitter and make up shite this family already seem to have subscribed to, would you put money on them having had the (IMO) vital if hard conversations about the lack of fertility, not having biological children if they transition? I don't think I would.

I sort of get what you're saying but are you saying then that a female who is infertile will never be a mother as it's biologically impossible? Curious as to where people draw the line on this one.

Well, I suppose a girl who was born without a uterus, for example, would learn (at an appropriate age) that she would never be able to give birth. This is a quite different from encouraging a 9-year-old boy who wants to be a mother to believe that it's possible. Children of that age might believe adults who tell them that it's possible to change sex.

What do you mean by 'draw the line'?

Bunce: m.derbund.ch/articles/17022533

Where's Autumn's dad? this is some next level revenge. Poor vegan cat.

All teenagers have the opportunity to look ridiculous (see punk/goth/club kids/emo/scene). Looking like a twonk as a teenager isn’t sex specific.

Your friend was relaying the stories she’d been told by AGPs.

See also: Pippa Bunce’s boardroom attire.

SarahH12: "I sort of get what you're saying but are you saying then that a female who is infertile will never be a mother as it's biologically impossible? Curious as to where people draw the line on this one."

Of course, Autumn may one day be lucky enough to adopt. It seems unlikely, however. For a start, most people don't want to adopt - they want their own biological children. More importantly, very few children become available for adoption now, and certainly hardly any babies. The authorities try to find better alternatives.

I suppose surrogacy is also an option, though not, in my view, a desirable one. I just feel this child is being supported in their delusion by adults rather than having the harsh reality spelt out.

Re: Christine Burns ‘were you worried about us 5 years ago?’ Trying to think back - when was Self ID proposed and when did Stonewall start suggesting that sex was just a cultural construct? That was when I became concerned.

I should clarify too as apologies I did say learn from parents. I did mean learn from relatives including sisters, aunts, peers etc whereas boys don't have that from a makeup and feminine clothes perspective.

The stuff about teen girls being taught to dress, apply make up and present naicely by older female relatives smacks of AGPs fetishising girlhood to me...

Not really considering this came from a female who's homosexual but has a lot of involvement with the trans community due to LGBT groups. It is true though if you think about it. Not just by older female relatives but by all relatives, friends etc. I'm a heterosexual female with no interest in make-up and as such was never shown how to do it (and therefore haven't the slightest idea!). I did have friends who went through the looking a bit ridiculous phase as teenagers as they experimented with their individuality but then grew out of it whereas trans people rarely have that opportunity.

explaining to Autumn that they will never be a mother because it is biologically impossible?

I sort of get what you're saying but are you saying then that a female who is infertile will never be a mother as it's biologically impossible? Curious as to where people draw the line on this one.

But, Tommy is accusing the BBC of conspiring with left wing groups to create a negative picture of him.

I don’t think left wing groups are necessary. He does that all by himself.

Ok I'll ask

He's done his own washing since he was 11.

no way am I asking him

Tell him some random lesbian on the internet wants to know

More importantly I hope none of you posters are washing and drying all these towels for them!
Three towels FFS...

I think one for his head, one to tie around his middle while he swans around and one for .... I can imagine but no way am I asking him.

I'm really perplexed about the towel thing. If you have long hair I can understand you might want one for your hair and one for your body.
Otherwise why does anyone need more than one towel? And why would a bloke need three?
What do they do with them????

How do you use 3 towels at once? I feel like I need a diagram.

She adds: "At this moment in time, Autumn is very settled into living as a female and, when she talks about the future and her dreams, it's about being a mother and getting married to the man of her dreams.

Why isn't Autumn's mother - or anyone else - explaining to Autumn that they will never be a mother because it is biologically impossible? And that a heterosexual man is going to be very uninterested in marrying Autumn because Autumn won't have working female genitals? And that probably a gay man won't be interested either, because Autumn will look like a woman?

I am so very, very tired of this absolute fucking drivel

As Christine Burns admits: "The general public are being groomed. Every day."

One wonders how anyone managed to demonstrate which sex they were before the advent of cheap, easily available makeup and multiple towels on demand.

There's a whole thread from Christine Burns

twitter.com/christineburns/status/1102646116909309956

I've just told my 3-towel son that he's more a of a woman than I'll ever be.

And I agree - discovered make up in the 60s and no way would you have taken advice from older relatives.

The stuff about teen girls being taught to dress, apply make up and present naicely by older female relatives smacks of AGPs fetishising girlhood to me...

As the second of 5 sisters, growing up in the 50s and 60s I don't remember my mother or grandmother doing any of that. We did our make-up experimentation as sisters, usually out of the house as our father was a bit old-fashioned about us going out plastered in make-up, and that was when we were 15, not 9!