How is this anything to do with furthering women's rights?

There is no consensus, least of all on the value of being nice. Many people in feminism believe being nice is the route to exploitation and that's certainly the strategy being implemented against women's rights.

I find it bizarre that its claimed there is no feminist material on the internet where feminists criticise the lingerie business.

As for the trans underwear, meh. If they want to feel 'sexy' by wearing lacy knickers and whatnot, fair enough. I think it only annoys me when its 'I must have lacy underwear because I a a woman' stuff. long with the usual AGP just creeping the fuck out of me.

Is that addressed to me? Some posters on here really do seem to be labouring under the delusion that this is a private club. How dare a "newcomer" say anything which goes against the concensus

Not particularly, no. Generic comment.

This Not Sufficiently Naice type of thread gets started hereabouts on the regular. It's nothing new and as predictable as the sun rising.

Topless swimming at men only sessions? Not Sufficiently Naice

Green mankinis at Hampstead Pond? Not Sufficiently Naice

Neon pink penis stickers? Not Sufficiently Naice

The list goes on and on and Ariston. Happens every single time. No matter that these women have had their jobs threatened, their political positions and party memberships threatened, or even been punched in the face in the British home of free speech. Not Sufficiently Naice

But without these women and their activism, including their daft stunts, no space would have been created for others to speak or the assertion of women's rights to be heard. Without them, we'd be proceeding apace to GRA reform and removal of EqA exceptions.

But y'know. You say Not Sufficiently Naice. So there we go.

SparrowNest I kind of agree with you about the protest. Yes women have a right to protest, and they can protest about anything they want.

But I think there are other areas of society doing more harm to women and girls.

The while trans womem in sport at the moment is a biggie.

This is my view,

I'm not out there preparing to picket the Olympics, so may be I don't get a say!

I totally get that these women have a right to protest. But I also think the underwear thing isn't such a big deal to me.

I think lacy undies are bloody uncomfortable, along with high heels etc. But men have a right to wear them if they like.

What annoys me is why no one in the media has pit two and two together and worked out why it seems dysphoria appears to present so differently depending on age and sex.

The biggest growing demographic in transfer terms is teenage females, but they are not asking for a boxer shorts and packers fashion show. They may be asking for boxer shorts and packers but they also want to get their breasts removed. For me this is the biggest tragedy of the whole current explosion on trans issues.

Up until a few weeks ago I think I'd have the same reaction as you OP. I'm starting to see their point now though. It's all part of a bigger picture. I'm still learning though. I follow a lot of rad fems on twitter so that helps my understanding somewhat 😊

Sparrow, that's commendable on a broad level. And how you campaign and prioritize things is entirely up to you. Other women have walked a different path and see things differently. They are brash and in your face, and that will reach some people. Others are more conciliatory and that will reach others. This isn't a religion or an army, it's just women sticking up for women in their individual ways.

I agree with you OP. Trans people, along with everyone else, can wear what the hell they like (within reason!). I understand the issues with lingerie (can't spell) and can understand the concerns, some of which I think are valid. But this isn't it.

I have a problem with men in women's spaces, both mental and physical. I have a big problem with fetishising women. But this? No. I would imagine some transwomen will like it, as some women like Victoria's Secret shows. And it will probably inspire some AGP which I will keep well away from but as long as they don't harm others I don't care what people do in the privacy of their own home.

Good luck to them.

Can’t it be about inspiring/engaging one’s own community?

The ‘masses’ will only be reached by snowball effect anyway. Most people don’t read Pink News.

Sparrow, you do know that gender dysphoria is not required to be trans, of course. And Betty explained why the protest didnt have to persuade the masses to be encouraging to her daughter.

LangCleg

Personally, instead of turning up as a Johnny-come-lately and snottily pronouncing on the correct way to go about things, I would think saying thank you would be more in order

Is that addressed to me? Some posters on here really do seem to be labouring under the delusion that this is a private club. How dare a "newcomer" say anything which goes against the concensus

Now, you see, I respect that Sparrow has a point of view, and despite a bit of a rocky first few pages, has engaged with the conversation. I don't think everyone has to like the demonstration. I do think it would be good if people would stop launching themselves into threads to tell us all off.

Personally, instead of turning up as a Johnny-come-lately and snottily pronouncing on the correct way to go about things, I would think sayingthank youwould be more in order.

True. As someone who only woke up last year, I want to thank women here and irl who kept on keeping on!
You're the reason why self-id might not happen, not Piers fucking Morgan.

Not all protests are aimed at engaging the masses

Rather the point I'm making. Why engage with the masses when you (general you) can congratulate yourselves on being right (whilst the masses look on with a mixture of lack of interest and incredulity)

So much for free speech. Expressing a dissenting view generates a personal attack. I thought the demonstration was ridiculous.

I think this thread, like many of the threads on here are preaching to the converted. Fine I suppose on here but if you (general you) want to get a message across this sort of stunt does little good.

Not all protests are aimed at engaging the masses

Excellent!

I proper love Julia Long, BTW.

My DD(12) is currently being bombarded by messages that say things like woman = people who choose to wear lacy undies, and conversely, that she must be a boy because she thinks lacy undies just look scratchy and weird (she likes comic books and fancies girls, the pressure to identify as trans or non-binary is palpable).

Last week was half term and I was washing up to a video of Julia Long speaking and DD popped her head round the door in a wtf? Kind of way, and within the hour she had a new feminist shero - so important for today’s fledgling lesbians.

Not all protests are aimed at engaging the masses. Not everyone engaging the masses is doing so in the name of feminisim.

Personally, instead of turning up as a Johnny-come-lately and snottily pronouncing on the correct way to go about things, I would think saying thank you would be more in order.

If preaching to a small choir of like minded women is what radical feminists want, then carry on with this sort of stuff. If what radical feminists want is the general public to get involved, this sort of demonstration isn't it.

Well, they seem to be doing pretty well so far without your patronising input. This time two years ago, reform of the GRA to self-ID (and with it, the complete eradication of women's rights) was a done deal.

They are the women that hijacked Pride for fucks sake.

Yes, the men do sound like they're having a series of crises. Which is unpleasant, no doubt. But FWR (this board) is unapologetically woman- focused, so their distress will always be secondary to the suffering they have caused their partners and children. That's what makes FWR somewhat different to Twitter or other arenas where this is discussed. As I mentioned, the only reason trans is a topic of conversation here is because it so very largely negatively affects women and their children.

Almost everyone posting here started out as a trans 'ally'. We don't come from an.anti-trans perspective, it's a pro-women one. That's always going to weight the equation.