NHS to review its transgender policies

Single sex facilities are based on body type, not internal senses of self.

And the view from the other side (reddit Transgender U.K.) is basically, ‘go fuck yourself, women’

www.reddit.com/r/transgenderUK/comments/axbtxf/transgender_nhs_rules_that_allow_men_to_share/

mobile.twitter.com/MattHancock?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

The LBC interview from where the Telegraph article stems from is on Matt Hancock's twitter feed yesterday and is 22 minutes in. Nick Ferrari does not let him get away with avoiding how absurd a 'male appendage' is in a female ward. It's worth watching.

They would NOT want the presence of someone who does not pass as a woman.'

They wouldn't want the prescence of a male patient.
Its a female surgical gynae ward.
The NHS tells staff and the public that these are single sex wards, with single sex patient accomodation eg showers and toilets.

There will be young females needing gyny treatment who identify/have identified as transmen and taken cross sex hormones. They are female

I've been concerned about this issue as I'm a nurse on a female surgical-gynae ward.

We have only ever had a trans person once and they went into a side room. This cannot happen all the time as those rooms are so needed for infection control purposes and those passing away.

Lots of my patients have been sexually abused, suffered domestic violence, are actively miscarrying. They would NOT want the presence of someone who does not pass as a woman.

For the record, the Equality Act 2010 is very explicit on this issue: hospitals are totally exempt.

See Schedule 3
Services and public functions: exceptions

Section 27: Single-sex services

Sub-section (5) The condition is that the service is provided at a place which is, or is part of—

(a) a hospital, or

(b) another establishment for persons requiring special care, supervision or attention.

[Sub-section 5b looks like it can be applied to prisons, care homes etc]

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/schedule/3

Lansley even worse than I thought

from Lansley's Wiki:
Suggested conflicts of interest:
"While in opposition as health spokesman, Andrew Lansley accepted a donation of £21,000 from John Nash, the chairman of private healthcare provider Care UK and founder of the private equity fund Sovereign Capital, which owns several other private healthcare companies, to help fund his private office, leading to allegations of a conflict of interest.[29] Such companies stand to be the largest beneficiaries of Lansley's bill passed by the Coalition and House of Lords to increase the use of private health providers within the NHS.

As reported February 2011, Lansley's wife advised attendees at a business conference to "establish positive relationships with decision-makers". Although staff members of Low Associates, the PR firm she runs, had food and drug companies among their clients before joining Low Associates, the firm denies it has any clients in the health sector

Andrew Lansley's wife, Sally Low, is the managing director of Low Associates. Sally Low denies that Low Associates is involved in lobbying and instead describes its activities as provision of "strategic advice" to clients. Low Associates helps people prepare before they give evidence to committees of MPs, and Sally Low has given speeches on improving lobbying skills, in which she said that lobbyists should "establish positive relationships with decision-makers before you need their help". Lobbyist clients of Low Associates personnel have previously worked for a variety of companies including those with an interest in health, such as SmithKline Beecham, Unilever and Procter & Gamble."

Andrew Lansley is also now an associate of Low:
www.loweurope.eu/NewsletterArticleDetail?articleID=61abd77d-02f4-44a6-a8df-4eb7faa55f80

I’ve googled Lansley now, he’s just an all round slimy POS.

These policies were instigated by Andrew Lansley, Health Secretary in 2010.
He was Tory.

He was one of the very few Tories who voted FOR the GRA in 2004. Most tories voted against.*
He absolutely understood what he was doing.

Andrew Landsley has some very serious questions to answer.
So too successive health ministers.

Lansley vetoed this. He was categorical. Insisted that it be called 'sex' whilst acknowledging within the meetings that wards were not segregated by sex but by self ID gender.
This is minuted in the meetings and a senior member of the NHS team was very clear that this happened.

Providing single 'sex' accomodation in NHS is a performance indicator.

In the UK it is well-recognised how important this is.

Guardian 2017
'Mixed-sex wards endanger and humiliate women'
by Catherine Bennett
'Even as gender-neutral spaces grow, hospitals show that in some areas men and women are best kept apart'
(extract)
The unacceptability of mixed-sex wards has been a cherished theme for every opposition since Tony Blair alighted, in 1996, on what is still, universally, agreed to be a valid cause of public upset.

Mixed wards, he said “cause indignity, upset people”. Subsequent studies, including a 2008 examination of nurse and patient perspectives, confirmed he had not exaggerated. There were patients, it confirmed, of both sexes and of varied ages, who “experienced a lack of privacy, worried about bodily exposure and felt uncomfortable”. Nurses entirely sympathised. “Mixed-sex accommodation,” it concluded, “is an unacceptable solution to bed shortages.”

Moreover, investigations showed, objections go far beyond the allegedly trivial ones, according to more disinhibited patients, of commodes, Carry On! gowns, proximity to men who might resemble, to pick one or two names at random, the Pimlico Plumber and twat-detector Charlie Mullins or the BBC star and famed beauty connoisseur, John Inverdale.

Patients and their relatives attested to intrusion, exhibitionism and leering from nearby beds, even with staff around. In 2009, Channel 4 discovered that almost two-thirds of sexual assaults by patients in hospitals (21 out of 33 in 2007/8), occurred in mixed-sex wards. Variations on Blair’s question to an evasive John Major – “Is it beyond the collective wit of the government and the health administrators to deal with that problem?” – was a reliable line in opposition outrage until Jeremy Hunt declared in 2014 that this indignity was “nearly”, or “virtually”, history." (continues)

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jul/30/mixed-sexed-wards-endanger-and-humiliate-women

That is fucking appalling barracker I’ve known for a long time that this has been going on for much longer than I’ve realised and some days I wish I was still blissfully unaware but I’m really shocked at that!

Can I call Langsley a cunt? Fuck it I’m going to, I think I’m six weeks from a deletion. CUNT.

and yes I know it’s the Feminist board but I’m really fucking angry

He probably hasn't done his homework, and thinks all transwomen are like Jan Morris. Someone should introduce him to Danielle Muscato and Alex Drummond.

Or listen to Tara Hewitt's training session for health care proffessionals.
'trans people and cancer'

Tara Hewitt has been very influential in changing NHS and Social Care policies:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3385533-Prominant-campaigning-role-of-Tara-Hewitt-NHS-TELI-Social-work-universities-etc

Tories got in May 2010. The whole 'we've abolished mixed sex wards' was Tory policy in 2010.

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/hospitals-to-face-fines-over-mixed-sex-wards-2053767.html

Look at the wording in this Independent article. 'sex' all the way through, not one 'gender'.
Looks reassuring, doesn't it?

But I know for a fact that the NHS team at the time discussed with Lansley that the policy was based upon gender, NOT sex. The NHS team wanted to call it 'abolishing mixed GENDER wards' to be truthful to the public.

Lansley vetoed this. He was categorical. Insisted that it be called 'sex' whilst acknowledging within the meetings that wards were not segregated by sex but by self ID gender.
This is minuted in the meetings and a senior member of the NHS team was very clear that this happened.

“The policy commitment relates to gender, not sex, but to ensure a better public understanding it is referred to as Mixed Sex Accomodation (MSA)"

Verbatim from the NHS documents in 2010.

Thanks Barracker your posts are always very informative.

I thought Labour were still in, in 2009 and they introduced the EA in 2010?

Where is Andrew Lansley now?

Politics was never my strong point but I do now know a hell of a lot more than I did three years ago when I was first alerted to this

in light of the Karen White case in a womans prison, the fact that the public are much more aware now about the possibility of a man abusing a system of self identity of gender, means the hospital policy has to be re looked at. Trans prisons, trans hospital accommodation-it has to be provided. I respect that transwomen don’t wish to be on a ward with men, but women have the right not to share a ward with people who aren’t women.

These policies were instigated by Andrew Lansley, Health Secretary in 2010.
He was Tory.

He was one of the very few Tories who voted FOR the GRA in 2004. Most tories voted against.
He absolutely understood what he was doing.

I don't understand at all how this can work in any practical sense. Male and female bodies are so different in so many ways, and I'm no doctor but there must be many conditions which exist only in one or the other, or exist in both but present differently, or need different treatment. How on earth can doctors be expected to do their jobs effectively? How will research work?

Also, people don't get much more vulnerable than when they're in hospital. The thought of forcing elderly women to deal with this makes me so angry. It also makes me want to cry actually.

OMFG barracker

In that case he needs to throw the Blair administration under the bus and explain to the public that the Tories care deeply about women’s right and the dignity of all people. Even if he doesn’t actually give a shit, it’s a vote winner!

He probably hasn't done his homework, and thinks all transwomen are like Jan Morris.

He knows.
The policy was brought to his attention publicly in October last year.

It was the Department of Health themselves that issued a directive overriding the NHS team, and instructing them to segregate wards by gender and not sex - but to tell the public it was by sex.
The NHS and the DOH understood the difference between sex and gender clearly enough to have a policy that explicitly stated to segregate wards by gender but tell the public it was by sex. That was in 2010.

The policy directing NHS staff to accommodate according to self ID was written in 2009.

That's before the Equality Act even existed, before the concept of 'proposing to undergo' etc was a thing.
At that point only a GRC granted you the legal fiction.
And yet in 2009 the NHS were preempting self ID already, using language that would appear in the future EA2010.

twitter.com/HairyLeggdHarpy/status/1053262276403388416?s=19

how are health or treatments be decided and outcomes recorded?

What?!

I meant how are treatments to be decided and health outcomes recorded.

And what about data collection? Or specific treatments that effect male and female bodies differently? So if a male bodied individual, born male, with male physiology is now treated as woman for all purposes if they choose to present that way when they go to A&E on a Tuesday afternoon at teatime, how are health or treatments be decided and outcomes recorded?

This 'treated as a woman' (or man?) rule based on presentation is going to have some pretty awful implications if we can't know what medication/dose/strength/period of treatment to apply for those with different sexed bodies, or collect basic data on whether treatments are successful or not dependent on sex.

This is probably the case to mention to him:
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/01/10/nhs-trans-row-men-get-access-womens-wards-identify-female/

Ask him why the frightened elderly women patients' needs were ignored. Ask him if this is now what will happen in all wards?

It was discussed on Loose Women with a subsequent row about panelists that said they didn't want to share wards with men - no matter how they transition - being accused of transphobia. Depressingly the elderly women victims of the transwoman's sexually aggressive behaviour were completely ignored by the terminally woke (Stacey Solomon et al).

medium.com/@anneharperwright/sex-gender-the-nhs-1e8f4e6363a6

In this article is everything any lurking constituent might need to apprise Mr Hancock of EXACTLY what is required to accommodate a male person in a female ward.
There are links in this to all the relevant NHS policy documents.

An extract from an NHS policy document:

Trans people should be accommodated according to their presentation: the way they dress, and the name and pronouns that they currently use.

• This may not always accord with the physical sex appearance of the chest or genitalia;

• It does not depend upon their having a gender recognition certificate (GRC) or legal name change