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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Radio 5 now talking about trans sports people

85 replies

ginandbearit · 04/03/2019 09:07

Just starting

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CountFosco · 05/03/2019 05:35

won recognition for women in tennis as equal in status to men

It wasn't until 2007 that the women got as much prize money as the men and tennis I think is the only major spectator sport where there is pay parity.

Katvonfelttipeyebrows · 04/03/2019 21:57

I never thought today would end up with me comparing rugby players height and weight! Oh the hardship.

Next time Verity, just stick to "I've played against some women who are as tall and heavy as a man. "

Not invent a mythical Yorkshire Amazon!

tobee · 04/03/2019 21:28

Blair (the footballer) talked about trans women and tagged on trans men almost as an after thought. It's amazing how little it's highlighted that nearly all the publicity is around transwomen but barely a mention of transmen. Do you think the general public notice the omission? The massive tipping of the scales in favour of hearing from one of the other? I doubt it. We notice it on here but the media don't bring it up. Even in a subtle way.

MillytantForceit · 04/03/2019 20:01

The film "Battle of the Sexes" about the origins of the Virginia Slims Tour is very well written by Simon Beaufoy.

It shows how US Tennis ex-pro Jack Kramer led a strike by the male players to get paid for playing at Wimbledon and the other big tournaments, but that he was happy for the women to get buttons by comparison.

Billie-Jean King led the fight for recognition, took Kramer on at his own game, established a Women's Tour (still going strong) and won recognition for women in tennis as equal in status to men.

ForgivenessIsDivine · 04/03/2019 19:55

The male advantage is of course a major point in this discussion but it is also about the fact that women have fought long and hard to have a space in sport and that space is being given up.

  • Female professional footballers earn on average 27K compared to their male counterparts who earn on average 2.7M.
  • Funding for women's sport is significantly lower than men's. For example, the £5M Bobsled programme pulled the funding for the women and continued to fund three men's teams in the 2018 winter Olympics.
  • Women were banned from playing football in FA grounds until 1969 as it was deemed unsuitable for women.

We are so far from seeing women compete, be funded and be paid on an equal level with men in the sporting arena. By allowing trans sportpeople into womens sport reduces the possibility that we can have meaningful measures which compare stastics between men and women and without review, it will go backwards. There will no longer be meaningful comparisons for funding, participation, achievement and without this meaningful comparison, focus will be lost and women will be the losers in this.

Women drop out of sport for all kinds of reasons. For every space on a team that is taken by a male bodied person, not only had a woman lost a space, but it will result in fewer women seeing female only sport as a refuge, a place where they belong and a place where they can strive to achieve at whatever level they are at and compete against their peers.

HawkeyeInConfusion · 04/03/2019 19:29

I love the way they feel the need to point out who is the TW in the team photo.

HawkeyeInConfusion · 04/03/2019 19:25

And here's the corresponding written article tobee.

www.bbc.co.uk/sport/47438175

tobee · 04/03/2019 18:37

Bbc news channel Sportsday have item about trans footballer coming up after 18.30!

Lamaha · 04/03/2019 16:02

Also the extremely disingenuous 'transwomen have been competing with women since 2004 and only just started winning' when it was only a year or so ago when the rules went totally ridiculous. And that fucking 'study' of 7 people...wipes out all previous work on male v female differences.
The next time RM says something like this she should be challenged to name these transwomen who lost.

Sexnotgender · 04/03/2019 15:36

www.rugbypass.com/news/140-club-fifteen-rugby-players-weigh-140kg22-stone/

Heaviest Male rugby players in the world. All around the 22/23 stone mark. These are professional athletes.

I’d say the chances of females playing at this size is slim to none.

I’m female and played full contact rugby for 6 years.

When in high school the girls team played against the boys team in a charity match, there was loads of issues raised primarily around insurance and whether it was safe. I think we were around 14 or 15. Guess we could have all just identified as boys and the issues would miraculously have vanished.

Datun · 04/03/2019 15:19

And it's not just whether or not it's fair physically.

Again, no girl is going to aspire to be a man on drugs in her chosen field. Or a boy who has female hormones and has been castrated.

No.

Women's sport is for women. It's in the fucking title.

SonEtLumiere · 04/03/2019 15:07

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

OvaHere · 04/03/2019 13:50

We had a rugby playing woman (and I think coach) on one of the sports threads in the last year or so. She roundly refuted all the bullshit lies about female rugby players.

Vixxxy · 04/03/2019 13:26

Also the ridiculous 'so you are saying transwomen should be barred from sport alltogether' is the same stupid line of reasoning as 'you are trying to stop us existing!'

ErrolTheDragon · 04/03/2019 13:25

I am sick of the 'gotcha' of 'if you want transwomen with the men then transmen must compete with women'. Well..they can, but if doping they should be treat the same as anyone else doping

Yes. I said on another thread that I liked Sharron Davies' phrase 'Male advantage' - transwomen have this, some intersex people have this, and transmen on T have chosen to acquire it. Anyone with 'male advantage' should not be participating in women's sports. Whether they prefer to participate in men's sports or find another way is up to them.

Vixxxy · 04/03/2019 13:18

More sunlight. I am sick of the 'gotcha' of 'if you want transwomen with the men then transmen must compete with women'. Well..they can, but if doping they should be treat the same as anyone else doping Hmm

Also the extremely disingenuous 'transwomen have been competing with women since 2004 and only just started winning' when it was only a year or so ago when the rules went totally ridiculous. And that fucking 'study' of 7 people...wipes out all previous work on male v female differences..

andyoldlabour · 04/03/2019 13:07

Katvonfelttipeyebrows

"Verity just actually literally said I've played against women who are 6 ft 4, 6 ft 5 and 23 stone."

I have just Googled the weights of top rugby players and came across this link to the New Zealand squad. It gives weight and height. The heaviest is 113kg/17.6st and the tallest 1m84c/6ft.
Is it just me, or does anyone else think a lot of transgender people tell porkies?

www.rwcwomens.com/teams/2580/squad?lang=en

PotholePalace · 04/03/2019 12:33

Thanks to John Brewer for presenting facts very clearly, backed up by research and evidence.

Katvonfelttipeyebrows · 04/03/2019 11:33

Or attempting to

Katvonfelttipeyebrows · 04/03/2019 11:33

I think at least, the debate was open. People on both sides treated each other with respect and that was good.
The trans people didn't no platform and I do think credit were it's due for debating.

Katvonfelttipeyebrows · 04/03/2019 11:30

The crazy is Mouncey is 6ft 1 1/2 and weighs about 15 and a half stone.

So they are a wee little poppet compared to those mythical new species of women described by verity.

I wish people wouldn't make shit up

zanahoria · 04/03/2019 11:21

Overall this debate has been pretty loaded towards the trans guests, my guess is that they wouldn't come on other wise. Nicky Campbell can be painfully woke but he was goading some of the transpeople with the "its good to debate" line. I don't like him much but he has 40 years in radio and is a master at winding people up, stirring the pot while pretending to be the nice guy.

littlbrowndog · 04/03/2019 11:17

Why is verity playing in the women’s team if verity is a transman

To validate verity shouldn’t verity be playing in the men’s team ?

Janie143 · 04/03/2019 11:09

So now doping is all fine and dandy too......if you are trans.

QuentinWinters · 04/03/2019 11:03

I texted them and they called me back but unfortunately I didn't have time to talk. Don't know if they read my text. But I did say Nicky talking about "bigotry" in the intro would have put people off calling in.

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