There are genuine transgender people - but they are quiet.

It's true, they look harsh. But as soon as you see them happening, it all makes sense.

Transactivists are furious if you acknowledge male pattern behaviour or male pattern violence.

The refrain is, oh my God you're saying we're are all rapists.

When people get DBS checked, none of them go oh my God you're saying we're all paedophiles.

It's a deliberate, determined attempt to shut you down. Because it fucks over their arguments.

Non transactivists who get arsey, like men did over the MeToo campaign, are doing that because they feel hurt by being associated with predatory men.

Their hurt feelings are more important than women being able to acknowledge and recognise male pattern violence.

If you're feeling frustrated that what you are trying to say is falling on stony ground, ask yourself if you're being manipulated into not saying exactly what it is you want to.

I would recommend that people lookat the rules of misogyny.

Some of the rules may appear over the top at first, but pretty much all of them can apply to male transpeople's demands on women.

I still don't understand why thebewilderness was discouraged from posting here. She was very kind to women and has a lot of experience to share.

link here, there are 14 and worth remembering:
www.reddit.com/r/Gender_Critical/comments/6kkeni/the_rules_of_misogyny/

Bewilderness is no longer posting on the FWR board. I miss her because I learned so much from her and the other long standing feminists who used to post here.

from The Rules of Misogyny:

11th rule of misogyny: Basic pattern recognition skills are cruel and evil when they hurt men's feelings.

Its recognition that we aren't safe. An important distinction to make.

It isn't a fear, a belief, it is absolute knowledge!

I saw that interview on 'this morning' with the trans lady, saying we should let trans people into these spaces because they're already there and not causing harm. But for me that isn't the point, it isn't a fear of trans people, it's a fear that we aren't safe.

Its recognition that we aren't safe.
The fear is the current lack of agency or feeling that we lack agency to effect change.

The thing is, worldwide, women have far less power, money and resources than men AND do the vast majority of the unpaid labour.

So it’s just not reasonable to expect us to take on the extra work of looking after the interests of trans identified males.

If an adult TS male is using female spaces, services etc and becomes aware that these actions based on their aquired 'rights' (despite not intended to cause direct harm) have contributed to circumstances whereby the risk of harm to vulnerable women and girls increases, safeguarding frameworks are damaged and women's right eroded, why wouldn't they change their actions?

Miranda Yardley did.

Adults who know/believe they are not a risk often maintain boundaries because they recognise how important protective boundaries are. Its recognising the responsibility we share towards others who may be vulnerable and is rooted in respect.

Fascinating discussion, which has helped me clarify my thoughts. I know you brilliant posters know that you influence lurkers, but just to remind you that we're here and learning (and helping to peak others in real life!)

@DoctoressPlague well the current campaign is evidently the one that quiets women. Trans women need to come up with something else I think.

How does that work? Unless he goes as a Little Miss.

So over inclusivity

and bloody diversity

DS has to go to school on friday dressed as a Mr Man to celebrate diversity. Oh I LOLed

Trans people can do their own campaigns for their own spaces

Us women are busy fightin* to keep ours

So over inclusivity

Know exactly what it means now

Budge up women and whilst budging up also shut up

Can't we all campaign for safe spaces for trans people?

If you mean 'we' as society, why not - where's the campaign though?

But if you won't abide any woman ever speaking in a way that challenges your Inner Beryl, you will remain a slave to your Inner Beryl forever.

And men have zero problem saying exactly what they think, and expect you to accommodate it.

And if you don't, it's hate speech/an attack/hysteria, etc.

It's been hugely important to me over the years on FWR to read posters who are uncompromising in their beliefs, l found it shocking at first in a but you can't say that!!!! way - even though I secretly agreed with what was being said!

That's the journey for us all though, isn't it?

You can't say that!

Oh, okay, I see. Yes, you can say that but you mustn't say it like that!

Repeat this uncomfortable feeling until finally the scales fall from your eyes and you realise that you can say whatever the fuck you like, however the fuck you like. And if males don't like it, that's their problem.

But if you won't abide any woman ever speaking in a way that challenges your Inner Beryl, you will remain a slave to your Inner Beryl forever.

Andy, the way threads take on a life of their own is joyful. Usually!

@BettyDuMonde thank you!
I'm young, admit I don't think I'm very 'woke' on this but whether transexuals have been here the whole time hasn't really got anything to do with this. It's being talked about now and women aren't happy, surely this has to be discussed? You can't just have every man and his dog in our spaces? What a bizarre concept. Doesn't that just irradicate women's rights? Muslim women's rights? Just because trans rights are coming to the forefront doesn't mean ours can just be put on the back bench. Why is it being shut down every time a women mentions it? Saying we aren't inclusive! Women worked fucking hard for their rights, and rightly so.
Can't we all campaign for safe spaces for trans people? All the women I know would be on board with that, I'm sure none of us want to segregate anyone but that doesn't mean we want our rights trampled on. I just don't understand it!

"Do you know what I found? Female socialisation + teaching ethics = me being too fucking polite for my own good. Every post where I disagreed I had been re-wroting, I was constantly changing my wording, to avoid hurting someone's feelings. Now I just proof read and take out the "Sorries" - and that is harder than you may imagine!"

This ^ ^

Now this strikes a chord. I live my life like this.

Weetabix and hot milk... OMG! The memories!

It's been hugely important to me over the years on FWR to read posters who are uncompromising in their beliefs, l found it shocking at first in a but you can't say that!!!! way - even though I secretly agreed with what was being said!

So thank you to all those amazing women past and present - just don't make me eat the WBH!!!!!

nothing much to add but can I just say that I love how a thread that's all about how some men are nice really, that gets a male turning up to educate us about that, still turn into women talking to each other, educating each other, agreeing, disagreeing

I bloody love it

Welcome TescoValue

Actually, I'd say that the unnatural attachment you have to herb-dressed Weetabix with hot milk has caused a distinct lack of giving a fuck what others think. I suggest that this is perhaps a marvellous inoculation against self-sabotaging socialization and therefore the strongest argument yet seen for eating the stuff...

Ha @ herb-dressed.

For this gem, I will submit to you for, oh, five minutes at least!