Is it homophobic to not want sex with clitorises and vaginas?

Its just stupidity, to call someones sexuality bigoted. This is part of what made me sure incels make up a large portion of TRA types actually.

What I always found 'interesting' is that lesbians are pressured to sleep with people with penises as these people with penises are also lesbians and its bigoted to refuse. But, these people with penises who are lesbians seem able to refuse other people with penises who are lesbians without being bigoted? How does that work then..

@Thisisthelaststraw

Try this thread. It's a little out of date because certain terms have now been banned on here, (Terf, TIM, cis), but it does what it says, and breaks it down.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

Hello this welcome to the board. It is really confusing at first but if you stick around it will become clearer. The break it down for me thread is good. I wandered here from other parts of MN, I was and am a liberal tolerant person but I have been shocked time and m again by the extremists within the trans movement and the push to medicalise children and access women's spaces. That wtf moment by the way is called 'peaktrans' and you'll hear that a lot in here.

I was being ironic when I said above I was confused. I'm not, actually; but I think the woke people are confused. On the one hand they argue that gender is a spectrum and fluid, and on the other hand they insist that they ARE one or the other, fixed now and forever.

It is absolute madness, and I don't even try to follow all this woke stuff because I think they are clinging to a delusion which they are trying to sell to us more traditional folks, telling us that we are archaic and on the wrong side of history. We're not. I promise that in 10 - 15 years society will look back in complete horror to this phase, and I'm sorry in particular to transitioning kids.

As a girl, I wanted desperately to be a boy for a few years and would surely have been swept along with this dangerous tide had I lived in modern times. Young lives are being irreparably destroyed; they are being sold a mirage, and will be terribly disappointed when this great happiness they might temporarily feel doesn't last; when they are rejected as partners because, really, most people prefer unaltered bodies for relationships; especially those who want children. When their health is destroyed as they are taking drugs whose long term side effects are unknown. They are basically guinea pigs.

This is one example of not having a choice being a good thing. We didn't have a choice back in the day. I was told I couldn't be a boy, accepted it, and turned into a very satisfied woman, now with two adult children and two grandchildren.

I shall ensure that my grandchildren are not swept along with the tide but are given some good old fashioned basics: there are only two sexes and accept the one you are born with. No such thing as the wrong body.

Could I ask please if one of you could direct me to some decent reading material to try get my head around all of this. I have an 18yo dd who I’ve so far been able to answer questions for (what’s gay, what’s transvestite, trans sexual etc) but it’s seems every day there’s a new gender, non-gender, female cock stuff and I don’t get any of it

@thisisthelasstraw I don't know if anyone else has answered you RTFT Cat but I explain it to my undergrads as:

Sex = biological basis/reality. We are a sexually dimorphic species; we reproduce sexually (and if they start on intersex I speak about genetic exceptions, rare, but they happen because of sexual reproduction)

Gender = historically and culturally specific stereotypes, based on ideas about sexual difference - not just sex, but sexual difference

These sex roles over the centuries have oppressed women.

So then you start to talk about:
"female" = biological woman
"femininity" sex stereotype social roles into which women are socialised (and you can give loads of examples - the "Patriarchy Chicken" thread in here gives you a good & quite humorous starting point).

And then I also say that there's no "natural" (another suspect word) necessary connection between being a woman, and being socialised or conditioned into a "feminine" role. Just because women give birth, does not mean that we are necessarily all the other things connected with that (eg nurturing, maternal etc etc etc), or that we are NOT rational, logical etc etc etc.

It’s definitely real, they tweeted it again on 1st March

Yup, its real...
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3521757-United-Nations-runs-ad-campaign-saying-its-discrimination-not-to-have-sex-with-transpeople

Are you certain that’s for real, Hermione?

I just looked up UNAIDS and it’s the Joint United Nations Programme on HIV and AIDS (UNAIDS) - not sure why they’d be getting stuck in on trans issues.

So if I met a guy at a bar, fancied them and had a good evening and then they told me they were ftm trans I’d have to be okay with that because they were a nice person otherwise I’m a bigot?

Well, the UN think that being bothered about the sex of your partner is bigotry and it’s discrimination not to have sex with people you’re not attracted to.

Right, I’m out (I’ve no idea what a saphist is)

And I am bisexual and it does (or it did, I’m married to a man now) matter to me what genitals and sex are involved. I don’t see how it doesn’t but willing to be wrong in everyone’s eyes for that.

I’m not cut out for this conversation. Men are men and women are women to me. I know that’s not a worldly view and I’ll namechange after this but fuck it I can’t be arsed trying to see other genders and not be a transphobic so and so. It’s too confusing.

indeed - @thisistheLastStraw...

it is just daft trans delusion. In real world you cannot be a male & suggest you are female by gender NOR sex.
you see man has a penis - last time I checked a penis is MALE both by gender and sex.
Therefore HE is male by gender & sex.
His chromosomes are MALE by gender and sex..

the word PENIS = MALE

yes i have a bit of both, but i am not a 3rd sex nor a 3rd gender. I am intersex - an human with ambiguous genitalia AND XXY chromosomes and disorder.

These men are suffering from a delusion, a fantasy that they are women, and as they still feel attracted to females they think they are LESBIANS - No No No.

They are castrated males - EUNUCH -

Honestly, I am still smarting from the knowledge that Keeley Hawes and Stana Katic won't at least consider me as a sexual partner. It's deeply wounding. I know they may well be heterosexual women with no desire for intimacy with female bodies, and as it happens, I'm married anyway, but the lack of open-ness to at least gaze into my soul is very invalidating.

Too many grammatical errors to fix. Sorry.

The people of Lesbos all claim to be Lesbians.

They would prefer you said Sapphist.

Those would be my thoughts exactly @Sam but apparently you can be male sex but female gender like in your head so if a man with a penis says he’s a woman he can be in the same changing room, toilets as me or my dd. That doesn’t feel right at all but all but everything I’ve seen is pointing to woman having to accept it because the laws will change and allow it.

I don’t want to get changed in front of a man regardless of his feeling like a woman. Nor do I want to pander to kink dressed up as a woman by using the same toilets. (A thread on here the other day said some men like to here women weeing) I feel very bad for saying that because I’m generally a person who values all other people rights but there has to be a line. It’s really bothering me.

This bothers me but the trying to figure out who’s a man and who’s a woman is just going to have to be dealt with if someone ever gets shitty about it because I can’t see how you can tell and if that makes me ignorant then so be it.

I didn’t even know some men thought they could be lesbian. It’s no wonder I’m confused

Just a thought:

Have Bisexuals ever insisted that any and all persons of either sex must have sex with them or they are being biphobic?

Your confusion is entirely understandable. Allow me to re-educate you! If biological sex or genitals matter to you when it comes to sex then you are a penis/vagina fetishist, poor you. We fall in love with the person (can we have a vomiting emoji please MNHQ) not their genitals silly!

First of all there is no such thing a "lady dick" or 'lady penis"

Only males have a penis / dick.
Only females ( and some intersex ppl) have a vagina.

Only females can be lesbian
Therefore males, even if dressed as woman, cannot be lesbian,
Therefore lesbians are free to state they do not wish to date, or have sex with males (even if castrated) as they are MALE.

It is fairly simple logic. Trans women cannot state they are lesbian, they are males who dress as women. BIOLOGICAL MALES - if they have sex with biological males it is technically MALE HOMOSEXUAL SEX (gay sex)

Time to stop any confusion -

No one has an irrational fear of "trans" people - "trans phobia" is just a term that trans community use to undermine common sense> it is not a real thing.

Homophobia is similar. No one has an irrational fear of homosexuals. We are all free to have sex with any other consenting adult. Regardless of their sex.

It is just respect for women, respect for lesbians that is being undermined to appease sick perverted fantasy of confused men.

I haven’t @Knick but I will. Thanks for the suggestion.

[grin]@Hipster

I don’t know. Maybe I’m worrying about nothing because I’ve misunderstood some things I’ve read and watched on tv. For instance I watched a debate section on a show one night a .. well I don’t know what to call them .. a person who acknowledged they were born a girl but who was now not a woman or a man but a new gender I guess. It was all very weird and they expected everyone to refer to them in non-gender terms ie not ‘she’ or ‘her’ or ‘miss’ or whatever.

That’s just one example but there have been a few where people look very obviously one sex but get shitty when referred to as that sex. How do you know? To me there are men and women but I realise I’m wrong I just don’t understand how I’m supposed to know from just looking.

Dd is a lovely young woman. Whether nature or nurture she has grown to be kind, accepting and non-judgemental. She’s fun and out-going once she gets to know people and like me she doesn’t give a shit who wears what or who shags who. My worry is now she may be put in uncomfortable positions with men, who are women in their heads, and I don’t think that’s right but I’m not sure how to share that with her should she ask because obviously it’s just being accepted by society and governments who are putting laws in place to allow it. I read a thread her not long ago about a school allowing a opposite sex student stay in boarding accommodation because he or she identified as something else, I don’t even know.

Sorry I’m just rambling now. I’m just going to go read that other thread and hopefully learn something.

Lesbians are transphobic and I’m a lesbophobic penis fetishist. Just sort of washes over you after a while.

Straw have you found the Break It Down For Me thread here? It's a helpful one.

female dick

[chews own ears off]

Could I ask please if one of you could direct me to some decent reading material to try get my head around all of this. I have an 18yo dd who I’ve so far been able to answer questions for (what’s gay, what’s transvestite, trans sexual etc) but it’s seems every day there’s a new gender, non-gender, female cock stuff and I don’t get any of it.

To my mind you are born a boy or girl, grow to be a man or woman. Like opposite sex - heterosexual. Like same sex - gay. Like both - bisexual. Simple I suppose and at only 40 I feel ancient for not knowing all this new stuff ie im a man but want to be a woman so let me in your changing room I demand or else you’re phobic and horrible and by the looks of it breaking the fucking law

I need to know what the hell is going on! I don’t care who sleeps with who or what appendages the want to have or not have or clothes they like. I really don’t but I don’t want to be forced to allow men in a space I feel comfortable in. I worry for my dd reading threads on here. I could really do with educating myself on the whole thing without reading material that’s over my head.

Any suggestions? Oh and please don’t eat me alive. I am trying to get my head around it all.