Sharron Davies

Mrsjasmin, I agree, it was weird to hear such an emotional (and manipulative) response read to sd. She also accused her directly of transphobia. Sd responded really well. But again I think it will help Sharon's side, not rk's. Everyone at home heard Sharon sounding sensible fair and not hateful at all, then heard her called a transphobe by email. They will see that for what it is.

On the science - in another thread about sport on radio 5 earlier today there was a link to a Prof of sport science who spoke (I didn't hear but sound like he put forward the physiological differences unequivocally). His twitter is @sportprofbrewer and it looks like he is getting in touch with fpfw.

On Twitter Paris Lees is saying the science is all on their side, does anyone know about this? I've googled but can't see much that's conclusive either way. That wouldn't really be relevant though in cases of self-ID
Agree with you winecheesesleep. The study that is often quoted as showing no advantage for trans athletes is by Joanna Harper (who is trans herself) but had a sample size of 8. The evidence is more in favour of an advantage though. Fondofbeetles has done a amazing blog on this. So clear and well written:

fondofbeetles.wordpress.com/2018/10/01/harder-better-faster-stronger-why-we-must-protect-female-sports/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Sharron Davies is a shero

Sharron Davies MBE
@sharrond62
Replying to @DoolanPd
Oh dear I think so. But many many elite female & male athletes feel the same way & a few of us decided we’d take the abuse because we don’t want a generation of young female athletes to miss out or give up all together #transgenderdebate

Datun, yes.

This one really needs to be pressed. I've said on another thread that what is being suggested is deliberately stunting a child's development to ensure they don't develop to their full potential. That's not sporting for a start, and it's emphatically not remotely ethical.

And what science would that be?

The fact that the 'get out' for the argument that transwomen have been through a male puberty and therefore have all the advantages of that, is that in the future people will transition before puberty so that 'will no longer be a problem', is fucking abhorrent.

It's absolutely sick. And it really exposes the agenda.

Lupron is anti-cancer drug, for fucks sake. It affects bone density. Kids like Jazz Jennings spend a disproportionate amount of time in hospitals.

Ingesting cancer drugs, cutting off healthy body parts, removing a uterus, and being on medication for the rest of your life, is not going to produce an elite athlete. That's number one.

Number two, encouraging children to mutilate themselves in order to compete at sport is fucking sick.

It's akin to telling kids that they can cut a leg off and enter the Paralympics.

Dear fucking God. I'm not sure how much more hellish this can get.

@WineCheeseSleep I would imagine that PL is referring to the work of Joanna Harper, a transwoman who advises and researches in this area.

www.sciencemag.org/news/2018/07/scientist-racing-discover-how-gender-transitions-alter-athletic-performance-including

The most significant research, in terms of how it's been used, is the study of 8 transwomen long distance runners. That apparently showed no advantage of women of the same age. There is a lot to criticise in that report. The report was I think used by the IOC to come to its conclusions about testosterone and qualifying periods. Dr Harper is often on panels that look into this.

I think reading that 'my feelings are hurt by this' email as some kind of 'counter argument' to what Sharron was saying was really out of order actually.

What about the feelings of women who train their whole lives to be the best they can possibly be with the body they have, only to have that taken by a male bodied person who says they are female? Is it always that the feelings of male bodied people come first and the feelings of 'cis' women don't matter?.

Because that was certainly the message given by reading out that email.

Sharron appeared on Victoria Live this morning, she was excellent. Victoria read out a letter from RM and it just basically said "I'm hurt. HURT!" Sharron stood by her beliefs - what a woman! 🤩

On Twitter Paris Lees is saying the science is all on their side, does anyone know about this? I've googled but can't see much that's conclusive either way. That wouldn't really be relevant though in cases of self-ID.

The fact that the 'get out' for the argument that transwomen have been through a male puberty and therefore have all the advantages of that, is that in the future people will transition before puberty so that 'will no longer be a problem', is fucking abhorrent.

Honestly, these people need to take a long hard look at themselves.

Surely the toll that a hormone regime would take on a young body would render them unable to reach elite levels in most sports? Never mind once they get into surgical interventions, with the time it takes to recover from major operations such as a hysterectomy?

Great service

Sharron has done everyone a frat service by getting this into the mainstream

Props to Martina as well, obviously

Sharron is retweeting Man Friday, women with radfem in their twitter handles and Fairplay to Women. It's wonderful to see

Also

Victoria Derbyshire
‏*@vicderbyshire*
10am: knife crime; also today, @sharrond62 and referee Lucy Clarke talk about trans women in sport; plus the ‘birth strikers’ - women who’ve decided they won’t have children because of ‘ecological armageddon’ @BBCTwo @BBCNews #VictoriaLIVE

I was hoping that if they transed young enough the advantage would be seriously diminished.

There will never be an elite athlete who transed before puberty.

As I posted on a different thread young sports people obsess about their sport from an early age and are already putting in many hours of training, doing the rounds of weekend competitions and holiday camps by the time they hit puberty. They are naturally active, probably outdoorsy types.

Young trans are obsessing about their appearance and inner feelings, spending many hours doing the rounds of doctors and therapists. Watching YouTube and tumblr.
And so are their parents. They probably hardly ever get to see the light of day or get a breath of fresh air.

It won't ever be an issue.

I was hoping that if they transed young enough the advantage would be seriously diminished. Just in case this nonsense continues.

Here is a BBC article about transgenderism in sport - with Rachel McKinnon stating that men have no biological advantages over women.

This would be the reason why my young (male) relative, who identifies as a woman and has been taking female hormones for a couple of years, easily lifted and carried a box of heavy itrms I’d struggled with. And I’m a strong woman with years of weight training behind me.

Sharon Davies knows what it is like to miss gold due to someone using testosterone.

Well said Sharon.

Physical activities are divided by physical state (sex), not mental state (gender), due to inherent physical advantage. State of mind, cosmetic surgery and drugs NEVER alter the inherent physical advantages.

Logic and honesty is called "hate" only by those who have neither.

Lots of respect for Sharron Davies.

www.theguardian.com/society/2019/mar/03/sports-stars-weigh-in-on-row-over-transgender-athletes

Campaigners divided over whether trans women have an unfair advantage in sport

www.theguardian.com/society/2019/mar/03/sp
orts-stars-weigh-in-on-row-over-transgender-athletes

Divided?

On one side we have a bunch of self interested nobodies.

On the other we have some of the greatest names in sport, none of whom are competing, so no direct interest just a desire for fair play .

I feel the dam is breaking! Dame Kelly Holmes liked my tweet yesterday about being thankful for them all speaking up. I was honoured!

I also throw too many 'though's' in a sentence and don't proof read thoroughly