The Times reports on a new jail in a jail for trans women

The three offenders have Gender Recognition Certificates.
The GRC legislation is likely responsible for the decision to place these particular male transpeople in a unit on female prison estate.
It granted them legal protections.

It may well be a decision informed by threat of legals actions.

As other male transpeople without GRCs had also been placed in the female estate with vulnerable women prisoners, have they all now been accomodated in the male estate?

Nope.

It should be in a men's prison because these offenders are men.

I think having it in a women's prison is a slippery slope. I don't buy it's simply because this prison had capacity.

Well, it's a start.
Shame women had to get sexually assaulted for them to listen.

But it is a step in the right direction.

Pam wrote:

This is a good example of the government outsourcing policies to Pro-trans Lobby Groups. Not only did they write the policy but Gendered Intelligence became part of the decision-making process about where to place transgender prisoners like Karen White.

What the fucking fresh hell?
Lobby groups for trans rights are invited to make decisions about safety of women prisoners?
.....WHAT?
Do the journalists realise this?
Under what authority have GIRES been invited to do that?
Is this normal practice for prison decisions in other areas?
Was it an open application process?
What women’s groups were asked to apply?
What expertise entitles GIRES to do this role?
What legal accountability is there for decisions they have made?

This is really worrying.

it is still mind blowing to me that this question always seems to be missing. Across multiple organisations, some of whom are paid to do so.

Yes it is as though swathes of people have had part of their brain removed or are under hypnosis. How do so many shitty, misogynistic, safeguard-removing decisions get signed off? It is insane.

Did anyone, anywhere, utter the question "but what about the women?"?

Even though I am the most cynical person I know, it is still mind blowing to me that this question always seems to be missing. Across multiple organisations, some of whom are paid to do so.

The possibility of salami tactics concerns me. Putting them into a self contained unit on the grounds of accepting their identity is a short step from 'and this activity can be inclusive' and 'this area should be inclusive'. It would be so easy to gradually stretch those boundaries from this starting point of being on site, especially after a few years of it being the norm for males identifying as women to be housed within the women's estate.

I agree. It's a softly softly approach.

The Review on the Care and Management of Transgender Offenders 2016

This is a good example of the government outsourcing policies to Pro-trans Lobby Groups. Not only did they write the policy but Gendered Intelligence became part of the decision-making process about where to place transgender prisoners like Karen White.

rather than the guess of tens of transgender inmates that the MoJ based their policy on, there are actually over 1400 inmates who identify as transgender

Is it that the guess of tens was transsexuals with a GRC (sounds like that's about right, 20?) which mushroomed enormously because of effective self-Id and the expansion of the 'trans umbrella'?

"Allowing transgender offenders to experience the system in the gender in which they identify will, in the great majority of cases, represent the most humane and safest way to act. We believe it will also assist successful rehabilitation".

Gah I want to break things every time I read that piece of innocent misogyny.

What about allowing women to 'experience the system' without 'experiencing' sexual harassment, having to shower and undress in the presence of men without choice or option to escape, and being confined with serious sexual offenders? Might that not be the safest, most humane way to act for them? And what do you believe about the effect of being a victim of fear, intimidation, humiliation, sexual harassment and living with the threat of assault 24/7 on women's successful rehabilitation? Or mental health?

If you're born with a vagina are you that much of an inferior, less human being that you don't deserve ANY consideration at all, never mind equal consideration?

The Review on the Care and Management of Transgender Offenders, published by the Ministry of Justice in November 2016 is interesting.

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/566829/transgender-review-findings-print.PDF

It boldly asserts:

"Allowing transgender offenders to experience the system in the gender in which they identify will, in the great majority of cases, represent the most humane and safest way to act. We believe it will also assist successful rehabilitation".

Also...

"At the time of the review there was very little data available on the number of transgender, non-binary or intersex people entering prison or commencing court orders. Estimates the review heard - of tens rather than hundreds of transgender prisoners - were based on observation rather than any audit or collection from information recorded on case management systems, and therefore they were not sufficiently reliable to be given any real weight".

A couple of years later and a HMIP survey finds that, rather than the guess of tens of transgender inmates that the MoJ based their policy on, there are actually over 1400 inmates who identify as transgender across the prison population in England and Wales.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6712985/One-prisoner-50-identifies-opposite-sex.html

Completely agree Knicknack

The possibility of salami tactics concerns me. Putting them into a self contained unit on the grounds of accepting their identity is a short step from 'and this activity can be inclusive' and 'this area should be inclusive'. It would be so easy to gradually stretch those boundaries from this starting point of being on site, especially after a few years of it being the norm for males identifying as women to be housed within the women's estate.

The decision now about what to do with trans prisons seems to be taking a very long time. Karen White offended in a women's prison in September and October 2017.

From the article above "It said wider policy on trans prisoners was still in development and “no final decisions have been made”.

Whereas the decision before (to transfer all men with a GRC irrespective of offending history to women's prisons plus some of those who self-ID as women) seems to have been taken extraordinarily quickly and implemented quickly.

Worth remembering that the unit was already out of use - they haven't moved young women out of it to make space for the new facility.

I hope that this was a pragmatic way to implement a policy change quickly, rather than having to wait for building work to be completed elsewhere, but that in tandem there is a project to provide the facilities needed for all trans prisoners who are best housed in the specialist facility

However, I'd guess it almost certainly means that some girls will now be placed in YOI further from their families and friends.

Good point.

Following on from that - we should note that successful reintegration post-sentence for offenders is greatly affected if they are unable to maintain good contact with friends and family while inside. This also holds for trans prisoners. We can't just designate one prison a trans prison and that's the end of it. Trans wings in multiple male prisons (so prisoners can be accommodated both nearish to family and according to risk) seems to be the best solution to me.

This unit used to house young female offenders-presumably to give the young ladies protection from the rest of the prison-does this mean that in future young female offenders are housed with the general female population?

Hopefully it means that there are fewer girls being given custodial sentences so fewer places are needed ... I don't know if that's the case or not.

However, I'd guess it almost certainly means that some girls will now be placed in YOI further from their families and friends.

I think the GRA should be dismantled as a piece of legislation that has served its important purpose back in the dark days before same sex marriage and equal pension rights were permitted, but is now redundant and offering certification to allow all kinds of boundary pushing that threatens women’s rights.

I concur.

Why on earth is a facility built for young women being used to house men who feel like women, who have a higher than average rate of sex offences-it’s just not good enough.

It's women budging up for males again.

Vulnerable women are losing out because male people take priority.

This unit used to house young female offenders-presumably to give the young ladies protection from the rest of the prison-does this mean that in future young female offenders are housed with the general female population?
Why on earth is a facility built for young women being used to house men who feel like women, who have a higher than average rate of sex offences-it’s just not good enough.
Whilst it’s great that transwomen are in theory now removed from the female estate, it’s not a long term solution & there is still a risk for female prisoners.

I suppose they can see into the woman’s jail/grounds. Not pandering to them at all eh?

Thanks Truth I do agree with you that it’s a tipping point now, and useful test cases will emerge from this, and that’s really heartening.

I just keep thinking to myself why are women individually having to risk our livelihoods and spend our time to sort out shit that this poorly constructed law places on us. I want institutions to think of women and girls and to actually protect us as a given.

I don’t think we can keep the pressure up as individuals on the law and institutions forever or quickly enough.

I want the law to help women too and often that will need to look like a legally-protected third space and legally-protected single sex (not a shared or mixed space). This just doesn’t seem like much to ask for women and girls but apparently it’s like asking to be given the moon on a stick..

Why is it next to the woman’s jail though?

Exactly. Half are sex offenders and we know how they can put huge energy into being fucking disgusting and invasive - wiping their semen where women might touch it, going to extraordinary lengths to perpetrate voyeurism, getting their hands on sanpro - they need to be kept away from women on a completely separate facility.

Why is it next to the woman’s jail though?