The Times reports on a new jail in a jail for trans women

Fantastic comments, though -- not a single one pro-trans. Either the Times is censoring such, or they don't dare. I wonder which.

Richard Garside also posted this the other day:

He said in a later tweet that he couldn't say much more as it was a private briefing but hopes things will go public soon.

So just to be clear, women's safety is being compromised, not because of the GRA (at the moment, only prisoners with a GRC are being housed at Downview), but because of a political imperative

That is fucking terrifying

And the infuriating thing is that they sure as hell aren't trying to turn the men's prisons into mixed-sex facilities. Or any men's spaces into mixed-sex spaces. Nope, one way traffic as per fucking usual.

There are no biological females in the male estate in England and Wales. Because any women who identifies as male would be UNSAFE there apparently. Because of male violence and sexual assault. But somehow, in the tiny minds of the authorities, putting men in a women's prison is fine.

So female-only spaces become mixed sex. With the absolute worst of all men in there.

And male-only spaces remain single sex.

I am genuinely so angry today that I can barely see to type.

O what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive.

So much chaos rising out of the original lie that men can become women.

Time to rerun to truth-based laws and governance, and find solutions for ALL men who are subject to male violence, and not just for males who identify as women.

Richard Garside, Centre for Crime and Justice Studies on Twitter:

twitter.com/RichardJGarside/status/1107212451475570688

A roof top protest. Staff unsure what's going to happen next. Female prisoners anxious.

Perhaps if the prison service stopped trying to turn women's prisons into mixed-sex institutions they may be able to start developing a fair and coherent policy.

This all goes back to allowing men to become women legally.

Now the MoJ is in a bind because they are now discriminating against these "women" because of their trans status.

How does the EA interact with the GRA? If a man obtains a GRC making him legally female, is the comparator for discrimination under the EA a man without the PC of gender reassignment, or a woman without the PC of gender reassingnment? If it's the latter, then there is no longer a protected characteristic of sex to protect women.

I'm thinking more and more that the GRA needs to be repealed.

This is unbelievable. To be repeatedly failing these women so badly is horrific. Why does the MOJ care so little? I hope the women are suing the MOJ - there are bound to be more than what we know already.

The MoJ has created this problem itself, partly influenced by Maria Miller's committee and partly influenced by the MoJ's own transgender lobby.

Oh, don't let's forget the ones they iatrogenically transed themselves by giving anti-androgens to incarcerated sex offenders.

We know 120 prisoners have been given anti-androgens across 6 sex offender specific prisons. Data from 4 revealed that of that cohort 34 have now transitioned

threader.app/thread/1067498512252837889

Because, you know, a great way to rehabilitate sex offenders is to stick them in prison with women who can't get away from them.

Like I say: I will never forget and I will never forgive.

And the most insane thing about it was that the MoJ rushed to put this in place in November 2016. When they were told by lobbyists that the number of transgender prisoners might be "in the tens".

Karen White happened in September 2017.

The MoJ are still "reviewing" their guidelines 18 months later.

Meanwhile, there may now be more than 1450 prisoners who identify as transgender according to HM Inspectorate of Prisons www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6712985/One-prisoner-50-identifies-opposite-sex.html

I am going to suggest that the majority of them have become transgender in direct response to the MoJ's guidelines that were rushed out.

The MoJ has created this problem itself, partly influenced by Maria Miller's committee and partly influenced by the MoJ's own transgender lobby.

The only way to keep women safe in prison is to ensure that biological male inmates are not housed in that same estate. Do it, solve the problem once and for all, rather than trying all sorts of insane halfway house measures that put women in danger and will have male inmates suing the MoJ.

Fully mixed sex prisons categorised by risk as usual would be better than this utter anti-woman crap. At least low risk women would be incarcerated with men less likely to be violent towards them or to sexually assault or harass them.

I will never forgive anyone who had a hand in this. NEVER.

If this doesn't stop, we'll have women's prisons which have ordinary women in them (the vast majority of whom are incarcerated for non-violent offences).

Prisons are categorised by risk (which is what makes this "solution" so barmy).

What will eventually happen is that the "female" inmate number will increase exponentially and there will become a need for an entire prison to accommodate high risk and sex offending "female" inmates, just as there is a need for such prisons in the male estate. This prison would house a tiny number of dangerous women (there are usually less than 20 at any one time, we're talking women like Rose West) and everyone else would be the other kind of "female".

Until then, low risk women inmates will have this travesty shoved upon them and nobody in authority will give a flying fuck about them.

It's fucking ridiculous.

I'm worried this might come out wrong, but do we know anything about the women Karen White assaulted/raped? Have they been given an opportunity to sue the prison service for not protecting them adequately? Have they been offered suppprt for that if they wished to go down that route? It seems to me that a public court case might help bring this matter to a head?

If this doesn't stop, we'll have women's prisons which have ordinary women in them (the vast majority of whom are incarcerated for non-violent offences).

And they will be outnumbered in the women's prison by the absolute worst of all men (who will likely have a very long history of sexual offences and violence against women and children).

That is the future.

I'd argue that it would be safer for women to have entirely mixed-sex prisons in that case. So no segregation by sex or gender at all. Because women might be able to get some protection from some of the other men who are not violent or sex offenders.

'This one sentence sums up the problem with self-identification: ‘the prospect of moving to the relatively liberal environment of a women’s prison could be a motive for insincere transition by dangerous inmates kept in high-security in the male estate’.

But that never happens!

And, when it does, it's not significant. No true Scotsman, etc.

Remember - acceptance with exception eh, Stonewall?

There is nothing I can type here that would both adequately represent my feelings about this and not get me deleted.

This all goes back to allowing men to become women legally.

Now the MoJ is in a bind because they are now discriminating against these "women" because of their trans status.

I'm guessing that every one of these men is suing the MoJ right now and will be demanding that the discrimination stops.

But the women's prison system in this country is not set up to cater for high-risk offenders, many of whom are sex offenders. Clearly. Because women typically do not commit these offences.

But I'm hoping that somebody at the MoJ is seeing the problems that have occurred so far and wondering how the proposed introduction of self-ID is going to work.

Because there will be thousands of male inmates who decide to identify as female if it gets them a move to a women's prison. The majority of sex offenders would chose to do that; why wouldn't they? It is cushier and you get access to women. We'll see notorious high-risk criminals choose to move to the women's estate.

And under self-Id, it is based on the feeling in your head, so there is no way to challenge someone who identifies as a woman.

If the MoJ is having all these headaches with men who have a GRC right now, then how much worse will it get when you can get a GRC at the click of a button?

Maria Miller's Transgender Equality report gave very strong recommendations that women's prisons should accept men that claim to be women, based entirely on their self-declared gender identify.

publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201516/cmselect/cmwomeq/390/390.pdf#page=65

"While the safety and welfare of all offenders is paramount, caring for and managing trans offenders appropriately is crucial. There is a clear risk of harm (including violence, sexual assault, self-harming and suicide) where trans prisoners are not located in a prison or other setting appropriate to their acquired / affirmed gender".

The Ministry of Justice then put these "Women and Equalities" recommendations into practice.

researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-7420/CBP-7420.pdf

At no point were women consulted.

Let's not forget Gordon Pike of the Scottish Prison Service and his malign influence

An official who agreed a policy allowing male-bodied sex offenders into women’s prisons was a sex offender who hoarded 22,000 indecent pictures of children.

Gordon Pike, a senior official of the Scottish Prison Service, was one of those responsible for its “gender identity and gender reassignment policy”, documents seen by The Sunday Times show. The policy is significantly more liberal than England’s, stating that transgender prisoners must normally be housed according to the “social gender” with which they self-identify, “whether or not” they have legally changed it.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sex-offender-gordon-pike-helped-set-prison-trans-rules-q8n3lnksv

This is just ridiculous, the gov't are complicit in putting female inmates at huge risk, whilst locked up. Even though they are well aware of the risks...

"At least one trans prisoner has proved disruptive, staging a rooftop protest at Downview last weekend, the ministry confirmed".

And they've been there a week?

FFS. This never ends.

As usual the reader comments mirror the thoughts of the majority:

'This one sentence sums up the problem with self-identification: ‘the prospect of moving to the relatively liberal environment of a women’s prison could be a motive for insincere transition by dangerous inmates kept in high-security in the male estate’.

Thanks for the share.

But it'll never happen.... they said.

Share token: www.thetimes.co.uk/article/high-risk-transgender-inmates-at-downview-mix-with-women-zt33zb2ks?shareToken=2ee2638aef9fa60d776ddea726559a4e

Archived: archive.fo/O7CJ5

It was too good to be true - women's needs centred? No chance

‘High-risk’ transgender inmates at Downview mix with women
Prisoners said to include sex offenders who are held in a new trans unit join biological women for some activities

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/high-risk-transgender-inmates-at-downview-mix-with-women-zt33zb2ks

Fairplay for women have a good thread on this:
twitter.com/fairplaywomen/status/1107196062832517120

This is a good example of the government outsourcing policies to Pro-trans Lobby Groups. Not only did they write the policy but Gendered Intelligence became part of the decision-making process about where to place transgender prisoners like Karen White

Schools policies, prison policies, NHS policies, Civil Service policies, HR, journalism, police, sports policies etc have all been written/influenced by single interest lobby groups and individuals. Rarely have the individuals involved any previous background or professional qualification in the area beyond trans-rights activism.

See GIRES, Mermaids, Action For Trans Health, press for Change, Stonewall, Agender, Scottish Trans Alliance etc