Joan McAlpine on sex and census. Wow.

"Because trans people may have particular medical needs etc which need to be anticipated and planned for."

What particular medical needs would these be, which wouldn't be a need for a girl, boy, woman or man?

There doesn't seem to be too much of a backlash so far (on Twitter at least) presumably because her reasoned and logical truth are so difficult to argue against.

Spread the word Joan!

I still don't see why trans id is on the census at all

Because trans people may have particular medical needs etc which need to be anticipated and planned for. At the moment nobody even knows how many trans people there are...

Absolutely fantastic to see another woman courageous enough to speak the truth and speak it loud and clear. I hope she can handle the backlash and that she has support from colleagues even if they don't say so publicly yet.

This is exactly what politicians should be doing. And yet until now, bar David Davis, nothing. It's very heartening.

It's great she's said this. Amazing, but I still don't see why trans id is on the census at all. It should be in the religion section as "transgender" religion if they insist.

Yes, thank you Joan McAlpine. Hopefully it is the start of a change. My SNP MP pretty much called me a bigot when I first wrote about my concerns about proposed changes to the GRA but his next reply a few months ago was a bit more thoughtful.

Thank you, Joan McAlpine

I'm hopeful that it will spread a bit - it's not just one MSP from watching the committee meetings and I'm sure at least some more will also have some ability to think critically.

Nice to see the Greens trying to undermine it

It’s not a party though is it, it’s one msp from that party. The party line is very different (sadly, former member)

Thank fuck for that. It's good to know there's at least one party I may be able to vote for...

Joan you're a star! First thread I've read on here for ages which hasn't made me crazy with fury at the absurdity and injustice of all the trans nonsense and removal of my rights as a woman.

@JoanMcAlpine
3 hours ago, 21 tweets, 7 min read

Re Sex and the Census. For many individuals identity is very personal and important and the 2021 census will allow those people to express a trans identity for the first time. All good so far...

But sex and identity are not the same thing and require separate questions. Biological sex is an important demographic variable needed to record & plan services and understand different population trends. @NatRecordsScot themselves say this

So the sex question should stay binary. Non binary people can express their identity in the trans question. Non binary people still have a physical sex. I note that non binary is listed as part of Stonewall's "trans umbrella". It's an identity.

Individual census returns remain confidential for 100 years. Many respondants might find other mandatory questions about illness, ethnicity & personal circumstances sensitive and difficult. But they answer them knowing their privacy is protected.

During evidence I asked @LGBTIScotland how @PippaBunce should answer the census sex question if they identified as woman one day and man the next. I was told they would be non binary. But Bunce still has a biological sex which would then not be recorded.

Recording birth sex is important to monitor sex discrimination and the Equality Act 2010. Women experience discrimination on the basis of biology, not how they identify (although trans people experience discrimination too, it is of a different type)

The census sets an important precedent. How can we defend the Equality Act, which clearly gives women protections based on biological sex, if we have said this definition of sex is irrelevant to our largest data gathering exercise?

Sex exemptions in the Equality Act are vital for privacy & dignity in shared spaces also "occupation exemptions" for jobs supporting vulnerable females. This matters as more men self ID as women while retaining male bodies and male genitals

Those pushing to change census sex question to an identity question ie @ScottishTrans and @stonewalluk told Westminster Women & Equality's Committee occupational/single sex exemptions in the Equality Act should be dropped. See here data.parliament.uk/writtenevidenc…

These same groups are key government stakeholders. They receive significant government funding and shape equality policies, including those affecting women. They were consulted about these changes to sex question in census to the exclusion of anyone else

Some lesbian and gay folk I speak dont share this dismissal of biological sex - if you cannot define sex how can you define sexual orientation? @ons make similar point when they said keep census binary here assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/upl…

As does @Docstockk parliament.scot/S5_European/In…

Also people with Differences of Sexual Development were ignored in the census consultation which said "intersex" was same as trans. Vast majority are male or female, less than 1:5500 babies have difficult-to-determine sex - see here parliament.scot/S5_European/In…

There is a view among some DSD reps I spoke to that there is an attempt to misrepresent their conditions to push unscientific claims that "sex is a spectrum" & lots of folk are "intersex", itself a term which DSD Families say is confusing and unhelpful

Sex is binary. Using the 1 in 5500 babies to claim sex is a spectrum is like saying human beings dont have ten toes because some human beings are born with more than ten toes, or less.

Lastly I am disappointed with the "official" women's groups who have embraced concept of sex self ID, even though the GRA is unchanged and self ID has no legal weight. I was told these groups will not accept membership from women with different view.

They will not listen to concerns of many ordinary women in Scotland who fear that the definition of female is being replaced with a concept of "gender identity" based on 1950s sexist stereotypes. This is not a feminism I recognise.

mentions which receives significant government funding to represent women and girls didn't submit evidence for census bill until after deadline passed. It appeared is if they only intervened when the committee was challenging the self ID narrative...

It was left to newly formed, unfunded, female rights groups like @ForwomenScot -and academics like @GoonerProf @kathmurray1 - to articulate what many women are too scared to say. They were respectful of trans people and supported asking the trans question.

Despite this respectful approach, some suggest these women should not give evidence to parliament. That is worrying when you consider policy in this area has been subject to "capture" by a tiny number of stakeholders with similar views

Finally, You can read the @SP_European report here sp-bpr-en-prod-cdnep.azureedge.net/published/CTEE…

In a nutshell: Women suffer discrimination on the basis of their sex. Trans people suffer discrimination too, but for slightly different reasons. We need to record both.

How could anyone disagree with this? Why would anyone want to stop women and girls from being able to talk about and record the discrimination they face?

Thank you Joan McAlpine!

I think it needs adding somewhere that Kezia Dugdale asked the question a while back that established that women's groups don't even get funding consideration unless they promote LGBT ideology so have their hands tied by the gvt.

I’m confused. Someone at the Scottish Parliament said Hamish wore a skirt and was therefore a girl? At the Scottish Parliament? A skirt which was possibly made from a length of pleated tartan fabric perhaps?

Thanks OP. What a tosser

Flippin' heck, Joan - that is a gob-smacking analysis of the issues.

I particularly noted her 'disappointment' at the state of organisations that puport to represent women and girls in Scotland and do no such thing. Instead, they advocate for men's inclusion in the female sex-class or they fail to turn up.

She commends the newly formed and un-funded womens' rights organisations and individuals who put their cases fairly and comprehensively. Such voices had been excluded in favour of government-funded LGBT lobby groups, who sought to erase the definition of woman and make a nonsense of the Equality Act.

A woman politician said this. High five, everyone.

Hallelujah! To recording sex and identity as separate entities on the census! This will make for unhappy reading riots to those TW who like to switch between sexes from one day to the next, have it clearly laid out you cannot be another sex, only identity (what you call yourself) a clear distinction.

My word, that is incredibly brave of her. I shouldn't feel like that because every single thing she says is true, sane, rational and based on material reality. And respectful of the needs of all.

Boggles the mind to know that this might get her even more attacks, while a young bloke like Ross Greer who clearly has less than zero understanding of the reality of our lives, of what it means to be female in a male-dominated world can pontificate about putting men's feelings above women's rights and will be applauded for it.

RG was the only one at that debate by the way who in my view was offensive and disrespectful to those who disagreed with him, a truly astonishing display of male privilege.

Even the Conservatives (I can't believe I'm saying that - the Conservatives!) were more respectful, fair and balanced than Ross and considered the rights of women while being mindful of the needs of LGBT people.

The Conservatives winning that comparison versus the party I've voted for all my life! FFS

Ross had the gall to say that all respectable women's organisations agreed with him that there is no problem with including men who self-ID as trans in all women's spaces.

Smearing all of the new grassroots - and most importantly not goverment-funded and therefore independent - women's rights groups as dishonest, disreputable, and unworthy.

And we know of course from the individual women's groups included within these umbrella organisations that it does cause issues and harms the women and children who they are trying to support. They just daren't say that out loud because of people like Ross calling all dissenting voices bigoted and disreputable (but worse still because they would jeopardise their funding).

And he didn't just play trans privilege activist bingo, insulting women by repeatedly calling us cis, framing objections to a non-binary sex question as bigotry etc etc, he also claimed the NHS had no problem with letting people self-identify their sex by changing their CHI number.

Imagine being elected to parliament and saying that out loud. I have a number of friends who work in the NHS and they have a huge, enormous problem with that. But Ross apparently knows better.

Sadly, one of his trump cards, that sex is a spectrum had been denied him by the unequivocal rejection and strong condemnation of the original Bill conflating metaphysical trans identities and the physiological medical conditions collectively known as DSDs.

What a triumph for sanity, science and reason that was.

Cannot for the life of me remember what ACH said. As soon as he started telling an inspiring story of his own child making pithy, precocious remarks about a young boy who was really a girl because he liked wearing dresses, my eyes glazed over and my brain decided to spare me the rest. Might watch it again if it's worth it but as he also played a bit of trans privilege activist bingo, I doubt it's worth it.

Joan mcalpine is one of the few reasons I'm still voting snp. That Twitter thread is outstanding. Thank God there is some sense left in snp. I'd like to know what Nicola surgeon thinks. I'd be heartbroken/gutted if she came out as an ok dokey wokey blokey.

Oh wow, I’m shocked but delighted. Sadly she’s not my MSP but I shall write to her to thank her regardless (& send a copy of her fantastic thread to my MSPs )

For completeness here's the video of today's debate at Parliament:

And the Official Record: www.parliament.scot/parliamentarybusiness/report.aspx?r=11964&mode=pdf

And now you'll have to excuse me as I'm off to dance round the room!