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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Civil Service Trans policy - what can I do?

360 replies

DoxxMeTwice · 28/02/2019 14:44

Following an awful "workplace inclusion" meeting today I was prompted to check out my work policy for Trans (link below).

I work for the Civil Service ( name changed, as I was previously doxed and can't risk it here).

Page 31 is particularly bad, I feel like it implies that any woman who objects to sharing single sex facilities will be disciplined for being discriminatory.

This policy is clearly being put into practice as during my meeting today it was discussed that a Trans Woman was left hurt and embarrassed recently after a woman did an immediate u-turn out of the toilets when she saw them. It was stated as a gentle warning to others to consider trans feelings.

The woman's feelings were not considered at all, though I expect she has probably since been vilified in her local office!

Does anyone have any real life examples of policies like this being successfully challenged by using EHRC/Equalities act??

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachmentdata/file/503663/WorkplaceeGuideCSEPPrevisedFinallV1.pdf

OP posts:
Ereshkigal · 28/02/2019 20:00

It's crystal clear to anyone who cares about the rights of women and girls when you see things like this. Unfortunately it seems some people can't see it.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 28/02/2019 19:59

And the fact that you may only find a man in the ladies one time out of a hundred - but the risk of this would put you off going into public loos anyway.

viques · 28/02/2019 19:56

humiliating and undermining to be expected to use the accessible toilet.

So it's fine for disabled people to be humiliated and undermined by being expected to use accessible facilities, and for natural born women to be humiliated and undermined by having to share their facilities with men, but some people are to be protected at all costs from the minor inconvenience of being asked to use private and discreet accessible toilets.

Riiiiiiiight, got it now.

NothingOnTellyAgain · 28/02/2019 19:54

The whole point about this is that it's coneceptual and divorced from material reality.

You can ID however you like.

Exising power structures remain ,based on material reality.

In general you cannot ID out of oppression.

Class anaylsis is like so last season though

Illyria47 · 28/02/2019 19:54

I think it would be pretty much instinctive for any woman to turn around and walk out of a toilet if she saw an obvious looking man in there. I know I would.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 28/02/2019 19:52

I was pleased (maybe not the right word as it was a horrible thing for the child) to read about the little girl in Falkirk (?) who did Make A Fuss when a male person (who says they are female, bla bla bla) tried to sexually assault her in the ladies loo.

The little girl knew - she kicked ‘her’ in the goolies and screamed blue murder. Give that girl a medal.

Sadly said attacker (who was also convicted of filming in the ladies loos) was housed in a women’s hostel.

NeurotrashWarrior · 28/02/2019 19:52

Stating that they're cis gender both negates the need for cis and nods towards the cotton ceiling.

NothingOnTellyAgain · 28/02/2019 19:49

"I've heard 'women with trans experience' and 'women with trans history' but cis women? "

YY some transwomen ID as cis.

There is to be no descriptor for cunty people as a group, to have one is exclusionary, and that's that.

R0wantrees · 28/02/2019 19:48

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD
I thought it was a different police officer.

I know there have been a few who have had profiles with regards trans rights. THis case with schools demonstrates how effective trans lobbying can be in changing public service policies:

'Who Is Making Policy For Schools?'
Transgender TrendMarch 31, 2018
(extract)
"The image above shows a presentation from a local Southend trans support group called Transpire, founded by a 54 year-old transsexual male called Gina Denham who teaches children that we all have a ‘gender identity’ which exists in the womb and is independent of both our socialisation and our biological sex. It is this ‘gender identity’ which makes us a boy or a girl and actually being male or female is irrelevant.

Transpire recently forced a school to change its policies in service of this ideology. Under the guise of ‘inclusion’ and ‘integration’ Gina Denham led an aggressive campaign to force a school in Rochford to remove sex-based rights and protections for its female students.

The trans pupil in question has been known by the Transpire group for two years so has presumably been thoroughly conditioned into the belief that he is literally female. As with Lily Madigan at his school in Kent, this one pupil has been afforded the power to change policy affecting all other pupils at the school with the help of a powerful transgender lobby. (continues)

The whole campaign, from start to finish, took 6 days. No time to conduct a proper impact assessment on pupils protected under the protected characteristic ‘sex’ as the school is legally obliged to do before changing policy. How is this not in breach of Equality law? The pupil involved is legally male, not female, and single-sex provisions are lawful under the Equality Act, for reasons of privacy. The example of school facilities used in the Equality and Human Rights Commission Technical Guidance (3.20) does not state that a pupil protected under ‘gender reassignment’ as transsexual should be allowed to use the facilities of the opposite sex:

The way in which school facilities are provided can lead to discrimination. Example: A school fails to provide appropriate changing facilities for a transsexual pupil and insists that the pupil uses the boys’ changing room even though she is now living as a girl. This could be indirect gender reassignment discrimination unless it can be objectively justified. A suitable alternative might be to allow the pupil to use private changing facilities, such as the staff changing room or another suitable space.

King Edmund School is praised for showing “flexibility and openness to change” whereas in fact they were coerced by a campaign designed to intimidate and shame them for their ‘abusive’ policy of ‘discrimination’ and ‘segregation’, clearly risking damage to the school’s reputation. One tweeter even likened it to ‘apartheid.’

Although the final tweet proclaims ‘Everyone wins!’ Denham freely admits in this BBC report that the victory is only for the transgender student and everyone else’s needs and rights are unimportant:

“It’s about giving people the opportunity to use the toilet they are comfortable with, not what the school is comfortable with.”

So who is Gina Denham and what gives this individual so much power that a school changes its whole policy to cater to the demands of just one pupil?" (continues)
www.transgendertrend.com/who-is-making-policy-for-schools/

NothingOnTellyAgain · 28/02/2019 19:48

So for all of the decades we were locked out of decision making. management. board . and still are to a large extent. everyday sexism. make the tea. wear the heels. dumb it down so no-one think syou're a bitch. pregnant? off you fuck my dear

that is something to get fucked off with

someone choosing not to use the same toilet?
Is being treated the same / more seriously as men refusing to be in the room with women (effectively) when it comes to opportunity, decisions, all that?

yeah fuck that

also this

"So you MUST pee or change your sanity wear in the female toilets, if a male is present? You are not permitted to change your mind or feel uncomfortable about it because the male bodied person’s feelings come first! "

We are taught from a very young age to not "make a fuss".
I have "not made a fuss" when I was a girl, when I was scared.
I teach my children to follow their instincts.
this OVER-RIDES that
It explicitly tells women and girls NOT to follow their instincts for fear of upsetting a dicky person
Hyperspeed reverse

Women and girls must comply. They must stay in situations they are uncomfortbale in.
Meanwhile obscene pay gap continues unabated.

Trousering · 28/02/2019 19:45

I recommend that you use the whistle blowing policy and procedure if there is an anonymous set up available. There usually is.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 28/02/2019 19:45

He has no right to call it really. Is he a woman? No, so butt out.

MillytantForceit · 28/02/2019 19:43

^Many trans people, having transitioned permanently, prefer to be
regarded as ordinary men and women, and therefore, cisgender. In these cases, where it becomes essential to refer to their pre-transition status, the phrase ‘woman (or man) of trans history’ may be used.^

Page 8

IDoN0tCare · 28/02/2019 19:43

Btw, he included women who suffered sexual abuse or violence at the hands of men, in that. Creepy bastard.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 28/02/2019 19:43

Call a spade a spade for goodness sake. However you dress it up fact is fact.

IDoN0tCare · 28/02/2019 19:42

Thank you for that, SingingLily,

There are men out there, other than the obvious ones, that will be rubbing their hands with glee. I actually had a proper argument with a piece of shit that said no woman should have the right to refuse to permit a male member of staff to search, examine or even give them a smear test. Because he was fine with a woman examining him, then women should just suck it up. He was so angry at the thought of a woman refusing, it was actually shocking.

Ereshkigal · 28/02/2019 19:41

I've heard 'women with trans experience' and 'women with trans history' but cis women?

Yes I've heard it too.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 28/02/2019 19:41

Transwomen and surely transwomen. The clue is in the ‘trans’ part. They are not biologically women birth or nature (or nurture either come to that).

R0wantrees · 28/02/2019 19:40

And according to that bit I linked, Transwomen are women, and once they've trasitioned they are cis women, and therefore no longer transwomen.

I've heard 'women with trans experience' and 'women with trans history' but cis women? Shock

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 28/02/2019 19:40

@R0wantrees yes and I believe they were incorrectly advising schools regarding loo segregation etc (agenda? Nooooo).

Ereshkigal · 28/02/2019 19:39

They are women (and men)

That's your belief. It isn't mine and no one has the right to force it on me. You're very naive.

MillytantForceit · 28/02/2019 19:38

And according to that bit I linked, Transwomen are women, and once they've trasitioned they are cis women, and therefore no longer transwomen.

It truly is Trans-substatiation.

R0wantrees · 28/02/2019 19:38

Wasn;t there a case where a male trans Police officer had two sets of warrant cards and so was treated as either male or female as they presented for a period of time?

ChattyLion · 28/02/2019 19:38

Place marking while hoping that this woman-hating guidance will cause uproar, and will thus mark a serious turning point in the public sector and government seemingly unquestioningly accepting and internalising this horrible misogynistic fuckery.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 28/02/2019 19:35

Yes the law is single sex but how can you fight against this when there are men who say that they are women? And if you argue, you risk harm.

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