Civil Service Trans policy - what can I do?

There are research reports available on EHRC and gov websites that explicitly include cross-dressers in trans.

Doesn’t Maria Miller’s enquiry also include cross-dresser in their definition of trans (it uses Stonewalls I believe).

They are now stating that men who are dressing and using sex segregated facilities for erotic reasons can do that. And they will permit the use of disciplinary procedures to override consent.

This is a really good point. I feel instinctively this about the women’s toilets at my work which women are required to share with men (NOTE: has not been verbalised to us like that but effectively it is forcing us because no genuinely man-free single sex toilet option is provided to the women staff and these women’s toilets are used by woman-identifying colleagues).

I hadn’t really been able to clarify it like that in my mind before now, thank you. There is a women’s consent aspect. And there is a sexualised element to the presence of men freely accessing women’s toilets while they are being used by women.

This is what self ID enables.

And for everyone saying how can you look into a transwoman’s mind and know if their motive is sexual or not, or nefarious or not, or even if they are a woman or man at that moment or not, for entering the toilets- the answer is obviously that nobody can look into anyone’s mind to know this or not.
(Apart from Layla Moran MP, apparently but I think she must have super powers).

So therefore these people need to keep out of the women’s toilets. Employers need to make this clear, provide for everyone accordingly. Third space is fine if that is needed. Express your gender however you want. But keep at a minimum the current provision of toilets that are single sex- and third space is in addition and should not be taking from women’s provision.

Which Department does it come under? The Minister/Secretary of State should be compelled to read the transwidows' threads.

I'm horrified that the Equalities Office forgot to study the barriers to participation in public life for ponyboys while they were at it.

Most clothing and office furniture is not designed to accomodate tail buttplugs, and many ponyboys discover to their extreme pain that coworkers are unwilling to offer lumps of sugar from their palm as a reward for good performance. The stigma and invalidation are appalling.

Also watching with interest, good luck with your meeting today Trousering.
I’d also be keen a support and fund a legal opinion. These so called policies are deeply worrying.

Perhaps the influence goes all the way back to the early days of The Beaumont Society & its members?

There are research reports available on EHRC and gov websites that explicitly include cross-dressers in trans.
There's one commissioned by the Equalities Office, the subject was barriers to public and political life for LGBT people, and the sample included cross-dressers/transvestites (their wording) identifying as men. Who knows how much these reports have influenced policies, but quite why the Equalities Office needs to know about occasional cross-dressers' participation in anything is beyond me.

Former civil servant, now local government. Utterly appalled by this and would happily contribute to crowdfunding if Trousering gets an action going. This needs stopping now.

It was a child who shouted ‘the emperor is naked!!!’

Just to hark back to the Falkirk lassie - we breed them both tough and canny in Falkirk - she knew it was a man with long hair AND where to put her knee! A very well brought up child whose parents should be proud.

And then they put the perpetrator in a women's hostel - it's literally 'out of the mouths of babes'.

That is excellent news Trousering. Should this need crowd funding I have no doubt that there will be countless women (and many men) who will contribute.

I'm beginning to wonder how many closet AGPs at the very highest level in the CS and elsewhere are pushing these directives through.

Perhaps the influence goes all the way back to the early days of The Beaumont Society & its members?

Might be worth a question on the Penny Mordaunt thread?

I'm beginning to wonder how many closet AGPs at the very highest level in the CS and elsewhere are pushing these directives through.

Avoiding sexual harassment and abuse at work is a legitimate aim. They no doubt have a policy that states that. They are now stating that men who are dressing and using sex segregated facilities for erotic reasons can do that. And they will permit the use of disciplinary procedures to override consent.

It's an obscene misuse/misrepresentation of Equality legislation.

I am going to say that we consider this to be sexual harassment at work and will be acting on this.

Brilliant, Trousering!

Sorry, I typed before fully understanding and missed the point.

Very interested to learn how it goes. Thank you.

QCs don't generally call their paying clients bigots.

They work on the legal analysis presented to them. His opinion of me is of no interest. His opinion on the discrimination and harassment is.

The civil service document does specify cross dressing for erotic purposes.

Watching with interest Trousering

Would it be more likely to succeed along the line of 'some men are sexual predators and those that are don't wear a badge...criminality doesn't change on transition...that will never happen except it does...Karen White..we need to learn from me too'

Rather than 'some cross-dressing males are sexually motivated' which leaves the objection open to cries of bigotry and transphobia?

Not sure on cost. It's not a case so it's not going to be 10s of thousands, it's an opinion.

Seems rude not to really

Should we be taking this into the Penny Mordaunt web chat?

Excellent Trousering- fantastic that you are doing this. What level of £££ are we talking for the written opinion?

My meeting with the barrister is Thursday. I can't guarantee getting chapter and verse but I'm am planning to present this as a problem that has been raised to me by an extremely large number of women in multiple sectors and we are considering a group action against all organisations supporting known sexually motivated cross dressing males in using female facilities as per the civil service policy. I am going to say that we consider this to be sexual harassment at work and will be acting on this.

It's going to be interesting. I might just have to leave that thought with the barrister.

I think it may be worth paying for a written opinion.

Just wondering if anyone has any further update around this guidance?