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Original poster

Civil Service Trans policy - what can I do?

360 replies

DoxxMeTwice · 28/02/2019 14:44

Following an awful "workplace inclusion" meeting today I was prompted to check out my work policy for Trans (link below).

I work for the Civil Service ( name changed, as I was previously doxed and can't risk it here).

Page 31 is particularly bad, I feel like it implies that any woman who objects to sharing single sex facilities will be disciplined for being discriminatory.

This policy is clearly being put into practice as during my meeting today it was discussed that a Trans Woman was left hurt and embarrassed recently after a woman did an immediate u-turn out of the toilets when she saw them. It was stated as a gentle warning to others to consider trans feelings.

The woman's feelings were not considered at all, though I expect she has probably since been vilified in her local office!

Does anyone have any real life examples of policies like this being successfully challenged by using EHRC/Equalities act??

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachmentdata/file/503663/WorkplaceeGuideCSEPPrevisedFinallV1.pdf

OP posts:
HelpTheTigers · 28/02/2019 15:04

As no one is allowed to enquire if anyone has a GRA (hateful) and we are not allowed to be concerned that a man can be using self-id in a predatory manner (hateful), request that women-only spaces be kept for women only (hateful), or try to maintain privacy and dignity (hateful again), we are well and truly fucked over in all directions.

It's so good to know that The Establishment is basically misogynist and cares about the demands of the few and not the needs of the many.

DoctoressPlague · 28/02/2019 15:03

I'm not aware of any examples but I'm watching this area with interest since a friend of mine has found herself in a very difficult situation thanks to this policy.

Agreement should be reached about when the transsexual person commences use of sanitary facilities such as toilets and changing rooms appropriate to their new gender role; usually this will be from the date of transition. Difficulties can arise if objections are raised by colleagues, which will need to be dealt with sensitively. However, the 2010 act stipulates a person is no longer requires to be under medical supervision -so a person who decides to live permanently in the opposite gender, and whether completes or forgoes any medical procedure, is still protected by the act. Therefore post transition, it would be humiliating, inappropriate and undermining to expect a person in their acquired gender to use toilet facilities of their birth sex or indeed be restricted to the use of the accessible toilet.

So "post transition" is now a meaningless concept (anyone can be a 'transsexual'), yet it trumps women's right to single-sex spaces. There has to be a way to challenge this.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 28/02/2019 15:02

Sorry - I forgot you had a career (I had one once).

Original poster
DoxxMeTwice · 28/02/2019 15:01

@LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD

I feel that this would be career suicide.

OP posts:
LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 28/02/2019 14:59

We still have them here... I remember when a man in the ladies would have been sent to HR for a telling off.

You know the answer here - you MUST start using the gents (making sure that you demand a sanpro dispenser for when you are manstruating).

Original poster
DoxxMeTwice · 28/02/2019 14:57

@LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD

I wish pigeon holes still existed!! Grin

My biggest concern is that this seems to have been approved at the highest possible level!

OP posts:
TalkingintheDark · 28/02/2019 14:56

Nothing useful to suggest, sorry, but that’s awful and makes me so angry.

Women being punished for wanting/having boundaries. Women’s feelings criminalised. Women (and girls in schools) being taught - yet again - that we are not entitled to prioritise our own feelings of discomfort or fear, but must always put the delicate sensibilities of a male first.

Not only are we supposed to share our single sex spaces, they demand that we act happy about it too?

I honestly believe this culture is actually evil.

Original poster
DoxxMeTwice · 28/02/2019 14:55

Extract from policy

*"

  1. Single sex facilities
Agreement should be reached about when the transsexual person commences use of sanitary facilities such as toilets and changing rooms appropriate to their new gender role; usually this will be from the date of transition. Difficulties can arise if objections are raised by colleagues, which will need to be dealt with sensitively.

However, the 2010 act stipulates a person is no longer requires to be under medical supervision - so a person who decides to live permanently in the opposite gender, and whether completes or forgoes any medical procedure, is still protected by the act. Therefore post transition, it would be humiliating, inappropriate and undermining to expect a person in their acquired gender to
use toilet facilities of their birth sex or indeed be restricted to the use of the accessible toilet.

Any continued objection or inappropriate comments by work colleagues to the use of the facilities appropriate to the gender of transition should be seen as unreasonable (discriminatory) and should be met with communication, discussion and education before the situation gets out of hand. In this sometimes contentious area, transsexual employees are entitled to expect support from management.

Where there are changing facilities, showers etc., consideration needs to be given to ensure appropriate privacy for all staff, including transsexual staff members. If one is required to change into work clothes or uniform then an employer is obliged to ensure attention to the issues of privacy of all staff, for instance by the installation of individual changing and showering cubicles."*

OP posts:
LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 28/02/2019 14:53

Yup I'd be peeing in a jiffy bag and leaving it in the pigeon hole of whoever decided this was a good idea.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 28/02/2019 14:52

left hurt and embarrassed recently after a woman did an immediate u-turn out of the toilets when she saw them

So the expectation is that if a woman wanders into the loos and sees anything from a 'passable' transsexual to a strapping 6'5 hulk in a Boden frock and beard standing there they MUST say 'good morning Miss', go about their business, not look them in the eye or in any way give any indication that they don't feel 100% happy at their presence - they are completely at fault and should be burned at the stake for hurting the feelings of this person? Even if the woman herself feels scared, threatened or maybe has been the victim of a male assault and would risk having a panic attack being in an enclosed area?

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