Infant Feeding - Massive Straw Men with Ambivalence & Gaslights

World Health Organisation say you can make a batch of bottles in advance and have guidance somewhere or other, but apparently fresh each time is preferred. I'm not sure why.

It's true about not getting straight answers, and sometimes there's outright misinformation too. There's at least one HV in my area who was telling people to make the feeds up with cool boiled water as late as 2012, and obviously that's wrong. This is before considering families who don't have a choice financially but to engage in unsafe practice like using old feeds even if they have been out too long. I expect we would see an improvement in infant health if everyone who is formula feeding were enabled, educationally and financially, to do it safely. We're not there right now. The former, in particular, seems like such low hanging fruit.

This probably makes me sound like a paranoid conspiracy theorist but I do sometimes get the vibe that antenatal classes and other sources want to make formula feeding seem as hard as possible in the hope that it will encourage breastfeeding when they tell women to make up a fresh bottle for every single feed and being anti perfect prep.

Obviously I get that there is a risk of infection from the bacteria in formula but it's got to be better to give realistic advice on how to prep and store reasonably safely than advice that few will feel able to follow.

Just realised I'm pretty late to this conversation! - but wanted to say how excellent I think the posts from up and bertie are.

We switched to first mixed and then full formula feeding at six months (two months ago) and we do make up all our feeds as we go along, but it's much easier with an older baby who has fewer bottles at what very quickly became set times, of course - no one I know who FF from birth managed it that way because it's near impossible for a newborn. Lots of people I know do use Perfect Preps, which they issued dire warnings against in my NHS antenatal class - and even as someone fully intending to breastfeed (and who did so reasonably successfully, I think - I'm happy with it, even if lots of extended breastfeeders would consider my efforts pretty weedy) I couldn't escape the feeling that the real reason the midwife running the class disliked them was because they made FF 'too easy'.

I've seen either the same OP or a different one post this thing about donor milk as default before, and to be honest I think it's optimistic to the point of naive about how many women would do it. A lot of donors now do it because they happen to have leftover breast milk, they don't set out to produce milk for that reason. You do get some women (who I much admire) who donate breast milk as a kind of charity work, but they tend to be doing it explicitly for NICU, etc babies - you seem to be suggesting that a woman who just wasn't getting along very well with breastfeeding 'should' be able to just go get donor milk instead. I think that's asking an awful lot of other women.

I was quite 'good' at pumping, in terms of output, and I never found any aspect of breastfeeding painful, and I still absolutely loathed pumping. Producing enough milk to keep another baby going as well as your own (and that's what every breastfeeding mother would have to do to meet demand!) isn't like donating blood (which I do), it's like taking up a pretty demanding part-time volunteer role, and expecting women to do that in the first months of motherhood seems a bit much!

I remembered that Mrs Beeton's Book of Household Management had quite an extensive section on choosing a wet nurse. Here it is, for the delight of feminists:
en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:Mrs_Beeton%27s_Book_of_Household_Management.djvu/2116

(to clarify most of the babies were pretty much newborn and i presume the fathers were still on paternity leave).

*drop-in centre

(it was a breast feeding drop-in at a children's centre).

Never seen a man at a BFing support group. TBH the chat was 10% feeding 90% babies in general. Met good friends at both groups i went to.

There were about 5 other women and four had their partners in with them.

I found it cringe - worthy.

I went to a really nice BF group at a cafe. It was all I could manage in the early days

My friend was making them up as required.

Never seen a man at a BFing support group. TBH the chat was 10% feeding 90% babies in general. Met good friends at both groups i went to.

On the breast feeding front, the only free help I could get was at a support group which involved sitting in small room with chairs in around the wall while other women's partners tried not to look at your breasts while you tried to breast feed and the advisor tried to help you. (I left my partner outside in the car). It didn't seem to occur to any of the other women or the organisers that some women don't feel fully comfortable exposing g their nipples, breasts etc ( you couldn't use a cover in the circumstances) in close proximity to men who aren't there partner. I didn't go back.

(but they gave it to the baby straight away so it couldn't have been).

2000 onward advice seemed to change to make them up as required. So baby wakes, mum boils the kettle, waits for it to cool, before making bottle 20 mins min to get bottle - meanwhile baby is starving, squealing blue murder.

This was utterly unfeasible for us so we made them up in advance.

(Also used Colief drops which made it even more unfeasible).

Does anyone actually make in demand/at the time? Maybe daytime bottles if you're good at predicting when your baby will want a feed.

Should add some people I knew used preboiled water in flask - when I asked them how they knew it was at the right temperature, they looked at me blankly. They presumably would have to have waited for it to cool down or used cold water to cool it down if it had been the right temperature.

I've not looked into it too closely to be fair but it really seems like no one wants to give a straight answer about preparing formula in advance.

Yes clear info needs to be given about formula as well as BF. But couple of things I don't understand when it comes to FFing.

It seems to be 70s and 80s mums batch made their bottles, put them in the fridge, warming them up as required. 5mins bottle is ready.

2000 onward advice seemed to change to make them up as required. So baby wakes, mum boils the kettle, waits for it to cool, before making bottle 20 mins min to get bottle - meanwhile baby is starving, squealing blue murder.

Have fridges got worse during that time?
Is the formula not as good?
Is steam not at good at sterilizing as the old fashioned milton?

What's changed?
I BF so might have got bits wrong but going on the observation of friends baby getting his bottle.

Finally finished reading, definitely gave me a lot to think about.

I think women are really left in a terrible position with poor support for breastfeeding from the medical professionals they should be able to trust but then when they do go on to formula it's the same establishment which shames them.

Up - thank you for your posts - not too long at all, really interesting

@Up I think those last two points especially are something many won't have considered at all.

Thank you.

I've re bought that book as well because it was cheap on kindle and someone borrowed my original and didn't give it back :)

I'd add to Up's excellent points, that if you're raised with babies meaning bottles, it can be such an evocative thing as well - just as everyone gets excited to buy little blankets and socks and clothes, buying the bottles and other equipment and imagining yourself using it is all part of that preparation and nesting for the baby. I remember being so excited to feed DS1 rusks because I remembered my baby sister having them, even though by the time DS1 was born they were very out of fashion/frowned upon because they were full of sugar. Incidentally I got over it when I realised how much mess they make when chewed and spat out. And DH was really anti the idea of baby led weaning even though he agreed the theory made sense, because he had such warm and happy memories of spoon feeding his nieces and wanted very much to have that experience with our baby.

I agree with everything you said Up.

Thanks! I was worried I'd typed too much and nobody would be arsed reading it.

Started reading the book. I really related to the part that says in a bottle fed culture women can expect a baby to suck the nipples in the same way as a bottle teat because that's exactly what I ended up doing and it really shredded my nipples. It was my own fault as she didn't join me on postnatal until the second night and I didn't get a chance to ask someone to observe a feed.

I remember being convinced something was horribly wrong with me and I'd end up having my boobs amputated or something. Horrible memories.

Bravo @Uptheapplesandpears

Your last two points in particular aren’t ever really addressed in discussions about breastfeeding. Many women from low income families don’t take any kind of mat leave which rules out BF.

It is not as simple as it is quite often made out to be by NCT BF counsellors.