Munroe Bergdorf: all women are a fantasy and transwomen are living their own fantasy

Meanwhile, for some fantastic rather than fantasy women....

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3521179-Saw-this-on-twitter

'People still refuse to see transgender women as women'

That's because they're not. Nor is the earth flat.

Gah! The typos. Sorry - posting from my tiny phone and on the train. It’s much harder to rant!

As you and others have said (and I observe to my students regularly) patriarchy doesn’t regard women as fully human.

Thus we get people, biologically male, brought up with all the masculine privilege that the biological male body attracts, who just don’t understand.

And if they are unhappy with the straitjacket of heterosexual masculinity, instead of risking all as many feminist pioneers (and ordinary feminists) have done, and CHALLENGING what Michael Conroy calls the “man box” they decide to appropriate the outward appearance of the biological female body.

Which we actual females know is the least important evidence of our sex status. Although it’s the visibility of femininity that adds to our oppression.

I think this cowardice in the face of masculinity is one of the (many) things that angers me about the milirNt trans movement. They are not brave enough to face down and challenge the toxic bits of masculinity that they feel oppress and erase them. Instead they require women to move over and change.

We’ve done - and are still doing- our pioneering and revolutionary work. We do it in many ways: both the big stuff Millicent Fawcett, Germaine Greer - but also in every feminist’s daily lives experience.

The headline from that article: 'People still refuse to see transgender women as women'

I mean, objectively, so what? It's akin to saying 'people refuse to believe in God'.

As others have said on here: you can control what people say, you can silence dissenters, but you cannot control what people believe.

It's such a vile thing to do when you think about it, isn't it?

It is vile and the first time I heard it voiced on Victoria Derbyshire Show by Rebecca Root I was deeply upset.

Victoria Derbyshire has been open about her own experiences of breast cancer, I was shocked that she was not also aware of the experiences of women with gyny cancer. There's an overlap with regards BRCA+. She let the cooption go unchallenged

In the same program though a woman who had been subject to DV, using Refuge services was describing how the prescence of a male would deeply impact her. She was treated appallingly by both the TRA and host.

It was shocking.

Didnt it cost Bergdorf 100K to create their "authentic" self.

Yes, Ive said it before, but for a movement that constantly bangs on about being 'your authentic self' they spend a lot of time pushing the message that you are not OK the way you are. This is especially horrible when you think that this is being peddled to kids.

Always be yourself - but change everything about yourself with irreversible drugs and painful surgery.

Its also because whether due to age, good fortune or lack of awareness they have not considered the realities of hysterectomies, menopause, infertility, gyny cancer and other associated women's health issues.

This. They see females who don't have periods or can't give birth, and think 'oh, I don't have periods and can't give birth either, I can use these people in my arguments, brilliant!'

It's so true that they don't consider these females as people at all, just a way of getting what they want. If they considered them as people, even thought for a moment about the experiences that these women have actually been through which bring them to a place of being unable to get pregnant or give birth, then they would not appropriate these women in this way, they would never compare themselves to these women.

It's such a vile thing to do when you think about it, isn't it?

Very expensive fantasy

Didnt it cost Bergdorf 100K to create their "authentic" self.

It doesn't but many young women especially have a lot to come to terms with following hysterectomy, immediate menopause & infertility.

The implications can have a profound effect on self-image, self esteem, sexuality etc

I doubt I and others would have named the struggles to recognise a radically affected body post surgery and chemo as 'dysphoria' but it probably fits the definition.

Having a hysterectomy does not make a female any less of a women.

Similarly, having a penis or testicles removed does not make a male any less of a man.

She has no idea what it’s like to be an actual woman in a female body. I’m starting to feel sorry for her.

Munroe Bergdorf is being given a considerable platform influencing directly and indirectly girls and young women.

That Munroe Bergdorf does not understand women's health, therealities of being and having a woman's body and Safeguarding is cause for serious concern.

Datun superb!

You are so stunning and brave.

Oh yes Munroe, my excruciating period pain throughout my 30s was a fantasy. And the wrinkles and weird sprouting hairs on my chin after menopause are a fantasy.

She has no idea what it’s like to be an actual woman in a female body. I’m starting to feel sorry for her.

It's because, yet again, they don't see women as actually real people. Fully formed human beings with their own category, and characteristics and unique shared experiences.

Its also because whether due to age, good fortune or lack of awareness they have not considered the realities of hysterectomies, menopause, infertility, gyny cancer and other associated women's health issues.

Journalists interviewing who simply nod this through without challenge are colluding and being a naive 'flying monkey 'really isn't a good enough excuse.

It's because, yet again, they don't see women as actually real people. Fully formed human beings with their own category, and characteristics and unique shared experiences.

I'd like to phone in/comment to say i'm no lesser a man because I can't ejaculate, or have an erect penis, or impregnate a woman. I'm exactly the same as any other man who might have lost their penis due to illness or accident.

And I thoroughly resent to the implication that I'm not. My vagina is every bit as male as all other men's vaginas. Thankfully we've come a long way now and people are beginning to understand that my being unable to impregnate a woman makes me a victim. And I'm far more oppressed than any other men with erectile dysfunction, because at least they have the cis privilege of a penis. I've joined an online erectile dysfunction group in order to share my experiences.

And I'm glad that this particular radio host/journalist fully understands and I look forward to them signing my petition.

Wherearemyminions

I had a total hysterctomy following my gynae cancer diagnosis. It likely saved my life and I was fortunate that it was caught by chance at an early stage but it also ended our hopes to start a family.
I know many other younger women who have had similar diagnosis and operation as well as those who do so as preventative measure due to BRCA+ and heart breaking family histories.

There are many other medical reasons affecting women which result in them not having a uterus and/or infertility.

Awareness of gynae cancers, the implications & consequences is still so low amongst women. Its clearly demonstrated by all those who sign up to TRA assertions and demands.

Male transpeople need to step back. Women's health matters.

March is Ovarian Cancer awareness month.
eveappeal.org.uk/

'One in five women mistakenly believe a smear test detects ovarian cancer'
metro.co.uk/2019/02/27/one-five-women-mistakenly-believe-smear-test-detects-ovarian-cancer-8761336/

If anything, we’re at more risk

Bullshit.

Its utterly disrespectful to women, many of whom have to have hysterectomies for medical neccessity, women who were born with or develop serious gynaecologocal problems & women who deal with infertility

Thank you. This neatly sums up what I have tried to say to people in the past. No uterus anymore here, or ovaries because I had to nurse my Mother through gynae cancer that killed her, as she did with her own Mother before her who in turn saw her own Mother die from the same. I don't want that for my own daughters.

Glamour Interview with MB:
(extract)
"What changes would you want to make to the conversations we have around gender in our society?

The transmovement has definitely come a long the way in the last few years but I would definitely like to see more stories being shared about transmen and other binary people. If we look at the media, transmen seem to be less validated than transwomen. I would also like to see more support for transkids and the recognition that trans people are not a threat to anybody. If anything, we’re at more risk. People still refuse to see transgender women as women. Just because we cannot give birth or do not have periods doesn’t mean we are any less a woman than someone who can. I’d like to see less of this nonsense in 2019."

here
There are increasing numbers of women (adult human females) who would definitely like to see less of this nonsense.

Again, a male claims womanhood and aligns with women who are infertile / stopped menstruating.

Munroe Bergdoef did this on Channel 4's GenderQuake debate, claiming that as some women had hysterectomies and so no longer had a uterus but were still women so were male transpeople who identified as women and didn't have a uterus.

Its utterly disrespectful to women, many of whom have to have hysterectomies for medical neccessity, women who were born with or develop serious gynaecologocal problems & women who deal with infertility.
Munroe Bergdorf and other male transpeople (Rebecca Root claimed the same on Victoria Derbyshire Show last year) using this argument demonstrate their lack of understanding of what it is to be a woman, their lack or empathy and also utter disrespect.

Its also ridiculously illogical.

Journalists interviewing who simply nod this through without challenge are colluding and being a naive 'flying monkey 'really isn't a good enough excuse.

Any female not wearing a dress or make up all the time is a tomboy?

They're mad.

I think 'tomboy' for MB may mean 'some days I wear jeans, a hoodie and trainers and don't spend hours on hair and make up and watch football/rugby etc'

The more I read MBs comments the more I hear a young petulant child who was bullied at school and is now demanding they get their own way and is being indulged

Its all and only about MB.

A person born male, presenting as female who is presenting as a tomboy? In a lacy bra showing their boobs?

🤣

I’m often a tomboy

A tomboy? At 31?