mumsnetdescribed as a recruiting ground for the far right appealing to women!!

Lamaha yup. I was trying to just look at the biology of it initially - you need so many things to be right that it works out to be virtually impossible to get that set of circumstances anyway. Add in the emotional, social and ethical considerations and this idea is clearly total nonsense.

@silentcrow:
Even if said trans person is fortunate enough to be the first born and an only child (sucks to be you if you're the youngest!), with a perfectly healthy mother, and themselves ready for transplant at 18, the chances of carrying a baby to term, in an aged womb plumbed into a foreign body on a regimen of anti-rejection drugs and hormones...it must be astronomical.

Not only that. Yes, mothers still love their transgender children, but I can imagine many of them are secretly horrified that their darling boy baby has turned into a woman-hating harridan trying to eradicate women's rights.
So, good luck trying to find donors for such a totally unnecessary operation. Women who would gladly donate their hearts or kidneys to a desperately sick person will turn out to be very protective of their wombs. And by then they'll all have trans-peaked anyway.

*Waves to all the new lurkers that Fae has directed over here today.

Welcome to the rabbit hole/radicalisation portal - we have gin waiting for you, let us know when you are ready for a top up

Also, if the far right did try to recruit here on the feminist forum they'd be disappointed

There was a little flurry of male far right/ 'freespeechers' attempting to co-opt women's positions a few weeks ago.
They were rather transparent and didn't stay long.

‘The irony of continually publicising a site then complaining about its members’

I came here because I wanted to see if all the tweets about how dangerous MN was were true . It’s one of the few places where there is proper discussion and a range of views can be found. Another thing I have learned from MN is the Streisand effect

Also this Fae person can't do maths and doesn't understand fertility.

The average age of mothers giving birth to their first baby is 28.6 (according to ONS; according to the British Fertility Society fertility has already begun to decline at this point). Let's say, in this upside down world, that a boy "changing sex" has taken their cocktail of blockers and oestrogen nice and early á la Webberley & co, there are no side effects (bloody unlikely), and this changed body is deemed ready for transplant at 18 years old (also unlikely - not many 18yos are ready to be parents!).

That person's mother's uterus is now 46.6 years old. Even presuming that uterus is not damaged in any way (eg further pregnancies, c-section scarring, endometriosis, fibroids, cysts or cancer) and there are no other contraindications such as HPV, hepatitis, etc - we know fertility declines sharply after 35 and more so into the forties. We know the risk of genetic mistakes increases with aged germline cells, and with IVF donation there's an increased risk of multiples. We know the risks for the mother increase significantly - we don't know how much an aged womb contributes to that. We know that mothers aren't always even the same blood group as offspring (rhesus factor), let alone a tissue type match.

Even if said trans person is fortunate enough to be the first born and an only child (sucks to be you if you're the youngest!), with a perfectly healthy mother, and themselves ready for transplant at 18, the chances of carrying a baby to term, in an aged womb plumbed into a foreign body on a regimen of anti-rejection drugs and hormones...it must be astronomical.

And that's before you even consider the ethics of such a thing.

Never underestimate mothers. We are the ones who will fight like the lionesses we are for a sane world for our children -- and a better world for our daughters.

Yes, loving the implication (not) that mother's cannot possibly be radical. Also, if the far right did try to recruit here on the feminist forum they'd be disappointed. Lots of women I've come across here are left as you get. My argument against gender ideology comes from a strongly leftist place (materialist politics), as it does for many gender critical people in the labour movement and beyond.

This. Me too; I'm originally as left as they come; born to a first generation feminist and human rights activist mother and a Marxist father in a small third world country, mixed race, ex-hippie, an immigrant to Europe. Well into my 60's so nursery school insults like Terf and Transphobe and Right-wing don't bother me in the least.

Uk Feminist splinter = views of 95% of gen public

If acknowledging women's rights and autonomy are now right wing then so be it. Do they think slinging names will shame us into submission?

I don't think regressive porn extremists have a clue how their views unite women. As soon as women understood the reach that this oppressive movement had in terms of removing women and children's rights to consent, to privacy and safety, insisting that lesbians must have sex with a penis or they were transphobic, the eradication of women's sport, sex segregated healthcare and access to women only spaces and above all the targeting of children, women started organising.

Women, feminists, lesbians, mothers, aunts, sisters, left wing women, right wing women, transsexuals and increasingly many many men... All united and growing louder and more assertive by the day.

That #nodebate was such a giveaway about the bullying nature of TRAs wasn't it?

One UK feminist splinter

Shows how little Fae understands feminism. Splinter from what? The Official Feminism?

This tactic of saying women who raise concerns are right wing fringe crazies, is just that, a tactic. To belittle and remove credibility. A tactic as old as anything. Burn the witch...(aka the inconvenient woman)

So transwomen will give birth to their own siblings???
Whole. New. Level.

no bear in pursuit?

* "Meanwhile, in the Mumsnet forums, I see the transphobes declaring, already, that they would rather no part of their body ever be available for transplant that a trans woman might benefit from. This is futile. Tissue typing and social factors make it most likely that the first donors will be the mothers of trans women."*

"Hahaha you stupid transphobe women, so full of your own biology. Well fuck you, coz those amongst you who need this treatment are to be cursed by giving birth to the very transwomen who will take over the earth."
Exit, stage right, leaving sharpened knitting needles behind.

That Jane Fae?
Amazing that they get so much air time about political and social issues and not this campaign that has previously driven their interests.

The BBC and Independent seem especially keen to platform Fae and grant carte blanche.

Its curious.

Fae identifies as a woman, a feminist and a liberal/left winger determined to protect some aspects of free speech.
Fae identifies women here as being transphobes and radicalised by the far-right.

“When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, ‘it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.’

’The question is,’ said Alice, ‘whether you can make words mean so many different things.’

’The question is,’ said Humpty Dumpty, ‘which is to be master — that’s all.”

― Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass

So just to be absolutely clear, this would be the Jane Fae who campaigned for more porn that portrayed sex leaving serious physical injuries? And showing ‘actors’ who appeared very very young (even though they may have actually been of legal age)?
That Jane Fae?
Amazing that they get so much air time about political and social issues and not this campaign that has previously driven their interests.

Strange...I'm in my 60s, have spent my life until now being grouped with the far left - and now I find I've miraculously become far-right solely because I have maintained my commitment to defending women's rights to safety, privacy, self-determination and not to be subsumed into a new category dominated by TW.

I'm massively against porn, however - maybe that's why Jane 'porn is completely harmless' Fae thinks the likes of me are 'right wing'.

I would be interested to know if anyone finds the columns of creeps like Fae persuasive. Surely most people just shudder and can't get to the end of those flesh-crawling words?

Dr Jane Monckton Smith
(Forensic Criminologist specialising in homicide, Coercive Control and stalking. )

"In coercive control, the controlling person will keep diverting the actual argument to push the victim to keep defending themselves against spurious accusations. That way the victim cannot put their side, and seems to onlookers to be guilty of something. It’s a strategy."

Jess Bradley's contribution to the book, 'To My Trans Sisters'
edited by Charlie Craggs (publ Oct 2017)

"The first time I changed the world was when I told my mates to call me she rather than he. I literally constructed a new world where its possible to understand myself as a genderqueer woman, despite being asigned male at birth simply by changing the language to describe myself. This is why language and pronouns are so important. Its about creating a world in which trans people are allowed to exist"

"And I can honestly say that the work that trans people do for each other means that, for me at least, the trans community is a beautiful place to be. Despite our differences, we have each others' backs"

the book is described:
"Dedicated to trans women everywhere, this inspirational collection of letters written by successful trans women shares the lessons they learnt on their journeys to womanhood, celebrating their achievements and empowering the next generation to become who they truly are.

Written by politicians, scientists, models, athletes, authors, actors, and activists from around the world, these letters capture the diversity of the trans experience and offer advice from make-up and dating through to fighting dysphoria and transphobia.

By turns honest and heartfelt, funny and furious or beautiful and brave, these letters send a clear message of hope to their sisters: each of these women have gone through the struggles of transition and emerged the other side as accomplished, confident women; and if we made it sister, so can you!"

source:
books.google.co.uk/books?id=gNspDwAAQBAJ

Its fascinating how self-described liberal / left TRAs such as Fae do not consider the many right wing, violent, criminal 'trans-sisters' worthy of comment or condemnation.

They'll be pretty nice to their own mums when they are trying to wheedle their wombs out of them.

If you call gaslighting and relentless emotional manipulation nice. They've got years to wear her down until she concedes for a bit of peace.

They'll be pretty nice to their own mums when they are trying to wheedle their wombs out of them.