mumsnetdescribed as a recruiting ground for the far right appealing to women!!

The editors of The Independent should read the responses to an important current thread.
OP Glinner asked:
"Hello, you coven of squints far right Nazi witches!

I'd like to collect some anecdotes about when and why you first became involved in the debate about gender ideology and activism. I've also asked on Twitter but thought this might be good for longer answers.

Please tell me your stories!"
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/a3518546-help-a-brother-out

Many are doing so with powerful eloquent responses, none of them driven by transphobia or 'far right radicalisation as alleged by Jane Fae.
The insistance by some TRAs that this is all about hatred of 'transpeople' demonstrates a lack of understanding and perhaps a narcissism which insists on a person/group of people being centred at all times with only full capitualtion to their demands being acceptable.

THis is mumsnet and the feminism and women's rights board, it should be of no surprise that it is the safeguarding of children, women's experiences, relationships and rights which are the focus of discussions here.

The Independent should be ashamed of allowing such unsubstantiated lies about women to be published.
They should learn about coercive control, how gaslightling, smearing, manipulation and flying monkeys are used to abuse and silence women.
Hopefully Sally Challen's appeal today will be successful and more will become aware of how serious and widespread this abuse of power is.

'Walking on Eggshells'
Coercive control is domestic abuse. Controlling or coercive behaviour was criminalised in 2015 - but it still affects hundreds of thousands of women in the UK.

Mumsnet, Women's Aid and Surrey Police have joined together to help raise awareness of the dangers of coercive control.

A new survey found 38% of Mumsnet users have suffered some form domestic abuse. "

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3452784-Coercive-Control-a-need-for-better-awareness

Women who have experienced abuse recognise the patterns of attempted control and manipulation very quickly, they don't forget

And you can't help but wonder if it is the experience they seek, rather than a child.
That's what I think. They constantly go on about how wonderful preganancy would be, but it all stops there. Nothing about the 20+ years of childcare that follows!
If they really want to be pregnant, why don't they get a womb 'donated' by a dog or cat and gestate a kitten or puppy? The biomedical difficulties of such an operation would be little different from using a human uterus and if it worked, they'd then end up with their very own furbaby!

Jane Fae has a really awful, hackneyed writing style. Natch.

And indeed John ozimek, as then, <a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120304233201/www.caan.org.uk/beyond.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">a book for the campaign group CAAN (consenting adults action network) who campaigned hard against the extreme porn law.

I raise your eggshell skulls with calling rape:

"the use of real force to get one’s way"

Even this FWord reviewer thought Ozimek's book "the Circle is not, however, without its flaws. One of these is a certain crassness and insensitivity in relation to issues of sexual violence."

Jane Fae has appeared as 'expert' witness in a couple of interesting trials.

writing as John Ozimek with Julian Petley in Jul 2009:
Guardian 'Our outdated obscenity law
The prosecution of Darryn Walker over an obscene blog could have damaged British publishing for years to come'

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/libertycentral/2009/jul/01/obscenity-law-darryn-walker

& 2011
'Believing in bondage
Why can't the law see BDSM or consensual slavery as beliefs? It's not just the 'right to spank', although that could be part of it…'
concludes:
"D/s is not sexist: there are probably far more male submissives than female ones. Nor is it truly inequal. It embodies different and, in the everyday, unequal roles. But its cornerstone is equality and formality: it is preceded in most cases by highly protracted negotiation; there is agreement of rules and boundaries; and an absolute recognition that "no" means "no". Could we claim as much for the average marriage?

But, the barrister asked: was I really suggesting that entering into a relationship in which someone else might tell you what to do, and where and how, was consistent with modern values? My answer was brief: "wage slavery".

In the end, the court remained unpersuaded. If nothing else, I suspect that the idea of being the first employment tribunal in the land to give comfort in any form to "slavery" made the judge quite queasy.

That's not the end of it, though. No precedent was set. There may yet be an appeal. And even if there is not on this case, it's an issue that won't go away. As the BDSM community increasingly finds its voice, it is likely one day to test the wisdom of an altogether higher authority: the supreme court, natch."
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/aug/16/bondage-bdsm-consensual-slavery

What is it about them? They've all got their TRAs but the Lib Dems seem to have many. And longer established.

It may be that some TRAs were established in the party and then others joined. Its well accepted of how well 'networked' transsexuals/trans activists have always been.

In a different context, I've been struck since reading it of how PIE is decribed in this BBC article as having established itself predominately amongst the same groups as TRAs eg NUS, Gay activism, Liberty, Young Liberals, Labour etc. In other countries the Greens were key.

www.bbc.com/news/magazine-26352378

Anna Arrowsmith (born Anna Imogen Thompson 15 January 1972 in Greenwich, London),[1] who works under the pseudonym Anna Span, is an English pornographic film director and producer.

Arrowsmith was the Liberal Democrat candidate for Gravesham in Kent for the 2010 general election.[17] Conservative Adam Holloway held on to the seat by a considerable margin; Arrowsmith increased the Liberal Democrat vote share by nearly one third compared to the previous Lib Dem election results and by more than the regional average, but remained in third place behind Labour.[18]

She has been an active member of Feminists Against Censorship since the late 1990s.[5]
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Span

FAC originally came together in response to the passage of a resolution by the annual general meeting of the National Council for Civil Liberties in 1989 condemning pornography. Spearheaded by British activists Linda Semple and Roz Kaveney, meetings of feminists were organised in London to begin producing documents and speaking up for the feminist position in support of free expression.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminists_Against_Censorship

Also the pervy pornographers in the libdems. Anna Span for example.

and was interested to read of a long history with the Liberal Deemocrats...

What is it about them? They've all got their TRAs but the Lib Dems seem to have many. And longer established.

I was just reading a 2010 interview that Jane Fae gave to the Daily Mail and was interested to read of a long history with the Liberal Deemocrats...

'The devoted fiancee who's sticking by her man, the father of her son, despite the fact he wants to become a woman'
(extract)
"John Ozimek was around 12 when he first secretly tried on women's clothes. It both thrilled and terrified him - so much so that he vowed never to do it again. For the next three decades, he simply locked those feelings away, hoping they would disappear.

He had a passion for politics and in 1979, aged 21, became Britain's youngest parliamentary candidate, contesting Newham South in London for the Liberal Party. A Labour safe seat, he lost, but remained heavily involved with the party's national executive.

Later, working in the macho environment of marketing and consultancy, Jane says felt she had to 'invent' a male persona to fit in, but at high-powered meetings would feel like a 'shy teenage girl', avoiding the dynamic males and gravitating towards the few women present." (continues)

www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1252462/Andrea-Fletcher-devoted-fiancee-whos-sticking-man-John-Ozimek-despite-fact-wants-woman-named-Jane-Fae.html

I'm sure Fae has been very disapproving of feminists who have given interviews to the 'transphobic right wing press'

I've seen even higher estimates of the UK's transgender population, for example 1% of the entire population, which would be at least 640,000.

That is the estimate submitted to the Trans Equality Inquiry by GIRES in 2015. Its based on a paper they wrote in 2009. They estimated most of this population were MTF.

Maybe we should start campaigning to get given prostates? It's not fair that cis men get the bits that make bum sex such fun, after all

I have a horror vision of women who don't want children,selling their female organs to transwomen. Worse yet, poor women from India or Bangladesh being coerced into doing so, just as there are surrogate farms in those countries (not sure about Bangladesh, but certainly in India).

It is troubling that males even laying claim to women's body parts is seen as a legitimate 'need' and 'human right'.

The thought is utterly vile.

What entitlement.

Yes quite. And herein lies the ethical issue.

If they simply want a child, the nonrelated Male partner could impregnate the biological sister. Now that has its own ethical issues.

But what they are talking about is their sister, who will probably be a similar age, being asked to donate their uterus so the trans woman can have the full pregnancy experience. It wouldnt be their genetic child. And you can't help but wonder if it is the experience they seek, rather than a child.

So it is their sisters that they would look to for a uterus. Not their mothers

Or they just follow the Jazz Jennings proposal and "shove their husband's sperm up their sister's vag" to get a baby

Thank fuck my uterus is too old now for my brother to make any claims on

Just imagine, Fae not understanding biology. Who'd have thought it, eh?

I'm shocked. Shocked, I tell you.

Just for clarification. Fae is wrong about the genetics of tissue typing. The most likely match, to allow a uterus implant, would not be from the trans person's mother but from their sister.

The MHC on cells, which determines our tissue type, is given to us 50/50 by our parents.

The mother has given the trans person 50% of their tissue type, but only that, half. The rest comes from the father. So the mother's organs are very unlikely to be a match, because 50 of the genetics will be different.

Their sister, having the same mother and father is more likely to be a good enough match to allow an implantation. (but still not guaranteed)

So it is their sisters that they would look to for a uterus. Not their mothers.

Just imagine, Fae not understanding biology. Who'd have thought it, eh?

Posie Parker
We are WOMAN (#weareWOMAN)

We also need some kind of anthem

?

Sorry, that was supposed to be a link to Sisters are doing it for themselves by The Eurythmics.

Weezol, can I suggest this?

www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=%23&ved=2ahUKEwjoybi-1dngAhVHMewKHXSiBUAQwqsBMAJ6BAgKEAU&usg=AOvVaw0VTJzWxrN8ZFOD4xbU2nov

'50 Shades Of Gaslighting: Disturbing Signs An Abuser Is Twisting Your Reality'
by Shahida Arabi
Updated September 29, 2018

"Gaslighting, explained.
How do you convince someone that something they know to be true isn’t? In psychology, what is known as the “illusory truth effect” is a phenomenon in which a listener comes to believe something primarily because it has been repeated so often. When an abuser continually tells you that you are oversensitive or that what you are experiencing is in no way abuse, you begin believing it, even if you know deep down it isn’t true.

In other words, a lie that is repeated long enough eventually can be seen as the truth. Researchers Hasher, Goldstein and Toppino (1997) discovered that when a statement (even when it is false and readers know it to be false) is repeated multiple times, it was more likely to be rated as true simply due to the effects of repetition. This is because when we’re assessing a claim, we rely on either the credibility of the source from which the claim is derived or familiarity with that claim. Surprisingly, familiarity often trumps credibility or rationality when assessing the perceived validity of a statement (Begg, Anas, and Farinacci, 1992; Geraci, L., & Rajaram, 2016).

The illusory truth effect can cause us to become susceptible to the effects of another dangerous form of reality erosion known as gaslighting. Deliberate manipulators who gaslight with the intention of eroding your reality and rewriting history tend to use the “illusory truth effect” to their advantage. They will repeat falsehoods so often that they become ingrained in the victim’s mind as unshakeable truths." (continues)

Gaslighting has become a well-known term in the abuse survivor community, particularly for the survivors of malignant narcissists. Unlike more vulnerable narcissists who may possess more of a capacity for remorse, malignant narcissists truly believe in their superiority, are grandiose and lie on the higher end of the narcissistic spectrum. They have antisocial traits, demonstrate paranoia, bear an excessive sense of entitlement, show a callous lack of empathy and display an egregious liking for interpersonal exploitation." (continues)

thoughtcatalog.com/shahida-arabi/2017/11/50-shades-of-gaslighting-the-disturbing-signs-an-abuser-is-twisting-your-reality/

thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3452784-Coercive-Control-a-need-for-better-awareness

I can trace my family's activism back to Peterloo. Yeah, I'm a right winger alright

Fuck off Fae