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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Hell yes Billy Porter

110 replies

JudgeRulesNutterButter · 25/02/2019 11:26

www.vogue.com/article/billy-porter-oscars-red-carpet-gown-christian-siriano

(Apols if there’s a thread already, I couldn’t see one)

Billy Porter wore a gown to the Oscars and I am LOVING his rationale as described in the Vogue article. Challenging gender stereotypes all the way. “I’m a man in a dress.” Bloody brilliant.

OP posts:
Catsandbootsandbootsandcats · 25/02/2019 18:20

I think it's cool. And I love the cape he wore to the Golden Globes. Capes are so cool. I want a cape (I wanted one before but this has made me completely lust after a magnificent cape)

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 25/02/2019 18:13

I don’t like the top half. If your gonna wear a dress, go full ball gown!

Floisme · 25/02/2019 18:10

Soz Pink if I have outed you. I'm happy to report my posts if you like?

Floisme · 25/02/2019 18:05

Noooooo
Blush
Shock
Confused
Grin

In my defence - I don't think Pink and Lass sound at all like the same poster. But hey.

ErrolTheDragon · 25/02/2019 17:59

Speaking of posters who appreciate a nice dress - what's happened to Lass?

Namechanged, and not gone very far at all. Grin

AssassinatedBeauty · 25/02/2019 17:57

I think you'll find, @Floisme, that Lass might be wearing a Pink outfit these days...

JudgeRulesNutterButter · 25/02/2019 17:53

Bring on the men in dresses, basically Grin

OP posts:
JudgeRulesNutterButter · 25/02/2019 17:52

See I can’t help but see this as positive because I’m so fed up of “women’s clothes” being seen as something men would never wear. The association being that if a woman wears trousers she is elevating her status, if a man wears a dress he lowers his. Because patriarchy.

So to be a man in a dress, to say that that doesn’t make him any less of a man, to be someone wearing clothes because they want to wear those clothes and not because those are the expected clothes and there will be negative consequences if they deviate... all that seems great to me.

Yes, women get criticised for their clothes. Yes, those clothes are often dresses. Personally I think making dresses more unisex is a step towards solving that problem.

OP posts:
Floisme · 25/02/2019 17:49

Yeah the 'you all' annoyed me too Marguerita. You know perfectly well we're not a cult and we don't all speak with one voice.

That said, I've seen sneeriness about fashion and make up on here and I've been in a couple of spats about it - the one I remember best was after Harry and Meghan's wedding where there were some very patronising posts.

Guess what, we're all different. There are plenty of posters on here who are capable of enjoying fashion while still noting double standards and porno influences.

Speaking of posters who appreciate a nice dress - what's happened to Lass?

FermatsTheorem · 25/02/2019 17:36

Re. performing femininity - it's the Caitlin Moran test, isn't it? Are men expected to do it?

Men can shave beards or not as they choose. Turn up for work in a sharp designer suit with several different alternatives in their wardrobe, or wear the same rumpled suit every day of the year, even if presenting on TV (a male TV presenter tried this as an experiment - no-one even noticed). And all their shoes, whether smart designer or not, are comfortable, functional and waterproof.

The point is that women often are not afforded the choice of whether or not to perform femininity. Unshaven legs and skirt? No-no in most professional environments (it would be viewed as the equivalent of a man showing up in ripped jeans and an unwashed band tour t-shirt with the morning's fried egg dripped down the front). Same clothes to present the TV news every night of the year for a whole year? A woman wouldn't even make it through the first week. Functional shoes? Not professional enough. Not wear make-up? Risk getting taken on one side and told you're letting yourself go.

Don't get me wrong. Some of the time I find it entertaining to perform femininity. Most of the time, I can't be arsed. (Mercifully I am a scientific researcher by trade, so no-one really gives a shit what I look like, but it would be different in most professional jobs.) But the problem is that the pressure on women to perform femininity is much higher than any equivalent pressure on men, and you are living in cloud cuckoo land if you can't see this.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 25/02/2019 17:36

Feminine women are sneered at for "performing femininity

I'm not sure I've seen that. I've seen men sneered at who think they are women because they perform feminity.

IMO anyone can perform feminity or masculinity - has no impact on their sex.

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 25/02/2019 17:33

I will stop swearing now Grin

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 25/02/2019 17:33

Oh

And im pissed that i can't type man in a dress in case some fucker reports me

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 25/02/2019 17:32

Oh and Jonathan's dress is fucking awful

Its not the fact that its a dress

Its the fact that its a fucking fabulous dress

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 25/02/2019 17:30

'Falling over yourselves' is bloody rude as well

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 25/02/2019 17:29

Fucking fed up of everyone who posts on here and has the audacity to say they are a feminist being bloody you alled

Its really really rude!

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 25/02/2019 17:28

but you are all falling over yourselves about how fantastic looking and gorgeous he is

I think he looks fab

I wear a shit tonne of makeup

I own a shit tonne of costume jewellery

And i love a pretty ( ideally slightly edgy) outfit

I do not leave the house without full slap and my hair done

Always have, always will

So dont you dare 'you all' me

louiseaaa · 25/02/2019 17:10

Love the closing quote

"People are going to be really uncomfortable with my black ass in a ball gown—but it’s not anybody’s business but mine."

FermatsTheorem · 25/02/2019 17:10

I love it. And yes, I bet it has pockets.

(I once made myself a ball gown with pockets).

whatsthecomingoverthehill · 25/02/2019 17:05

I've not seen women scorned at for "performing femininity" on here. And if there were such comments I would expect a strong rebuttal.

There is definitely a concern about the standards women are held to, and for instance the influence of porn and other media on how women think they ought to look. But that is an overarching context and I've not seen shaming of individuals (unless celebs, but then shaming of celebs in general seems to be a sport with no rules on MN).

AssassinatedBeauty · 25/02/2019 16:47

I must admit I hadn't heard of the Jonathan chap from Queer Eye wearing a dress at the Emmys. Maybe it was because it was a less significant awards ceremony and because the dress wasn't quite so fabulous.

MargueritaPink · 25/02/2019 16:43

Really MargueritaPink? I'd be interested to see where that has happened

I'm not trawling through old posts to prove it but it happens. Feminine women are sneered at for "performing femininity" (And yes there is a sneering tone in the way it is used on here) but you are all falling over yourselves about how fantastic looking and gorgeous he is.

It's one of the rather unpleasant tropes of radical feminisim- rubbish and decry anything traditionally feminine unless a man adopts It- then It's wonderful.

AssassinatedBeauty · 25/02/2019 16:36

Matt Stone and Trey Parker were taking the piss though, it was a joke and they were essentially badly imitating (mocking?) the two women who wore those outfits originally. I don't think that's at all the same as a man just choosing to wear a dress because it's a fashion choice.

Deliriumoftheendless · 25/02/2019 16:27

Matt Stone and Trey Parker wore dresses to an awards ceremony years ago. I believe it was the Jennifer Lopez and Gwynith Paltrow outfits if memory serves.

SharkBastard · 25/02/2019 16:13

I liked Jonathan's attempt at the Emmys too. Men pushing ideas of masculinity/femininity mixing it up and making statements is positive I think

Hell yes Billy Porter
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