R4 Today about the Tavistock report/resignation

Do you wonder whether Ruth Hunt, seeing that report on GIDS/ Tavistock and seeing Martina gathering momentum, decided the tide had turned and it was time to jump?

Almost certainly. I think that people like Hunt are frightened that the backlash is coming and she probably wants to be well out of the way when that happens.

I thought Justin Webb was good too. He did seem to understand the issues and ask the right questions. Polly Carmichael simply evaded every difficult question, though, and refused to admit the possibility of social contagion.

I can’t access it - can anyone summarise?

I think Justin Webb did a great job. He got both interviewees to say more than they'd intended. Polly Carmichael spent a lot of time saying nothing.

You can still hear it on the live feed, you can just go back to 7:47.

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/live:bbc_radio_fourfm

The questioning was fantastic - careful, thought out and challenging. Loving the use of the word ‘irrevocable’ and really getting to the answers and holding them to account. Hopefully this will start to change how this is reported as the BBC are coming under more scrutiny about how they report on this.

Do you wonder whether Ruth Hunt, seeing that report on GIDS/ Tavistock and seeing Martina gathering momentum, decided the tide had turned and it was time to jump? I think she ought to be reminded that there is no escaping responsibility for the part she has played in a massive child abuse scandal. Anyone contemplating employing her needs to be aware of this.

I thought the question to Damien Hinds was a bit left field but useful all the same. It might mean he'll think, maybe for the first time, that what's taught in schools about trans issue might be within the scope of his job as Secretary of State for Education.

Get it into his awareness there's a potential scandal here.

.

I really hope everything that's happened over the last week makes the Lottery people reconsider Mermaids.

Kat that is unbelievably sad but, to those of us who've been paying attention for a while, a not unexpected scenario. But a lot of that is not on the radar of, for example, the average head teacher - or the average politician.

Agree Dp. And let’s add Trans participation in Women’s Sport, Mermaids and Stonewall to the Tavistock. All under much more scrutiny than a even a few weeks ago.

Re Damien Hinds,
"The Secretary of State is responsible for the work of the Department for Education, including:

early years
children’s social care
teachers’ pay
the school curriculum
school improvement
academies and free schools
further education
higher education
apprenticeships and skills"

www.gov.uk/government/ministers/secretary-of-state-for-education

Thanks I'll try to listen on catch-up later.

This really is quite extraordinary, almost like the house of cards is actually coming down. GIDS have been under enormous pressure to apply the "affirmation only" approach (practised in America) and have been at the forefront of the huge (endemic) rise of children and young adults becoming trans.

For GIDS to wobble, it's not just a slight wobble. "I didn't get where I am today without knowing a slight wobble when I see one" - CJ. It's huge.

The BBC, The Guardian are all listening now.

Cern, I don’t know for sure, but maybe others have also called for external oversight of the Tavistock?

It was appropriate to ask Damien Hinds as transgenderism is included in the proposed plans for sex and relationship curriculum in schools.
Hinds did not seem especially well-prepared and claimed that headteachers would know how best to respond to pupils questioning their gender identity.
Trans lobby groups such as Stonewall and Mermaids Charity have had significant influence on education policy already.
Tavistock clinicians have identified significant issues and pressure from Mermaids Charity.

current threads:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3516346-Compulsory-trans-lessons-in-primary-schools-what-will-this-involve

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3516454-twinkl-has-fallen-for-the-rainbow-guff

see also:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3454658-recording-of-mermaids-training

That was brilliant
I was screaming Pullllllllllllllllllll at the radio.

DD1 best friend is a transboy. I'll call them Tom. Last time I ranted about them I used the "incorrect" pronouns, and got deleted.

Here are the facts about Tom
Their dad died (strange circumstances) when they were 13.
They have always been pressured academically, in the 11+ exam they threw up and failed, despite being gifted.

They have a history of self harm
Their brothers also self harm
Their middle brother was always seen as the clever one
They are extremely high achieving academically
They are into anime, and like many teens spend loads of time on the internet.
Gender Incongruence happened at in year 8, no mentions before.
They have been diagnosed with anxiety, and often carry around comforters (teddies etc)
They are under CAMHS

They are an extremely kind, caring, individual. An extremely loyal friend to DD. They always share a room on trips etc. I am genuinely terrified that the only thing holding Tom back from demanding irreversible medical changes is the fact that they have a sensible, kind (but gc) group of real life friends. I'm terrified once at university they'll be lost.

I want to burn the binder they wear. Present how you want. Live how you want. Just don't hurt your own bodies.

I don't think Tom wants to be a man, whatever the hell that even means, they just don't want to be a woman.

It breaks my heart.

Marcus what you have done protects every child like Tom.

I thought Justin was good but there's too much ducking and diving, skirting around the issue, carefully thought out wording such as the reason for not using the word "hypothetical " whilst not admitting they were real cases etc. Talk of long term consequences or difficult decisions re treatment but I think that treatment should be spelled out for the public to hear.

Still it's a start. A few cages will have been rattled.

TRA public meltdowns only help the GC cause.

For anyone who wants to catch it when it becomes available on Sounds it was broadcast at 07.46-ish, just after the Thought for the Day, which incidentally was a female cleric talking about the importance of gay people and acknowledgement of gay relationships within the Christian church.

We have just high-fived in our GC household because this is a huge, huge brick being pulled from the whole tottering trans edifice. No one mentioned safeguarding, no one mentioned child abuse but it was all there looming as an issue. Social contagion and the influence of social media was in there, and there was no hauling in of a trans spokesperson to huff and puff and deny it all and insist that we were all transphobic.

For the very first time the BBC have actually treated this subject as what it is — a safeguarding issue — and Justin Webb just went at it in a businesslike, properly journalistic way. Contact details here:

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006qj9z/contact

Please Tweet, email or whatever to say well done at ruddy last.

I predict that there will be a formal enquiry into Mermaids and Stonewall announced by the end of April. I hope the Lottery Fund committee are already feeling nervous at colluding with child abuse. I want lots of heads on platters.

Bump.when will Jenny Murray be let out?

Fantastic! I think this is a huge change in the way things are reported and on a very mainstream news programme. It would be great if we all wrote in, so they discussed again

I want to see this being discussed publicly and the pro-trans lobby facing a choice of either using their familiar tactics of abuse, threats, silencing, and violence or debating on the facts and for this to be happening as the public is watching.

The general public are being informed and educated, this can only be a very good thing.

Missed it as between car/work but noticed that it had vanished from the news headlines (was there at 06:00 but not subsequently), very pleased it wasn't pulled at the last minute - was getting ready to complain! Will listen later.