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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Was Hatshepsut transgender?

89 replies

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 22/02/2019 14:01

Just saw this tweet form amnesty:

During #LGBTHistoryMonth we are highlighting notable LGBT+ figures from history. Hatshepsut (1507 BC - 1458 BC) fifth Pharaoh of the 18th Dynasty of Egypt, one of the most successful pharaohs in history. born a woman, used female pronouns but presented herself as a King #LGBTHM19 t.co/H4GWvcj7lg

I have to confess my historical knowledge is massively lacking, but I hadn't heard that before?

OP posts:
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HawayMan · 24/02/2019 23:33

The replies on that Twitter post are brilliant though. Grin

newtlover · 24/02/2019 23:11

shame I have already cancelled my amnesty sub
however, wrt Elizabeth 1, we already know from Nursie that she is a boy withut a winkie, so, clearly trans

MillytantForceit · 23/02/2019 12:55

Jesus: Long frock. L'Oreal 'Because I'm Worth It' hair....?

Tanith · 23/02/2019 12:36

theshakespearecode.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/henry_wriothesley_3rd_earl_of_southampton4.jpg?w=500

Widely believed to have been the subject of Shakespeare’s sonnets.

Feminine man - or transwoman? Hmm

Mind you, he was hardly an icon himself so that’s probably why he remains unclaimed.

ErrolTheDragon · 23/02/2019 11:32

Maybe suggest they highlight all the great LGBT icons from history ... all those other pharaohs sporting kohl and wearing frocks... Hmm

There are loads of actual verifiable LGB characters in history, if they had any sense they'd stick to highlighting those rather than indulging in ahistorical suppositions.

Kettleon80 · 23/02/2019 11:17

I've just written to Amnesty to complain. Let's see what drivel they respond with,

BetzOnMark3 · 23/02/2019 11:06

I utterly despair for humanity 😔

MillytantForceit · 23/02/2019 10:51

Yes, it's starting to look awfully like 'female achievements' are being erased and replaced with 'trans achievements'.

Joan of Arc in trahziz, it's only a matter of time.

RockyFlintstone · 23/02/2019 10:49

Yes, it's starting to look awfully like 'female achievements' are being erased and replaced with 'trans achievements'.

ComputerSaysMo · 23/02/2019 10:49

Yes, Amnesty is definitely trolling women. You’d think, what with their leadership resigning due to their toxic working environment leading to staff killing themselves, they would have more important things to do.

HereBeFuckery · 23/02/2019 10:40

Hatshepsut also presented herself as female. It's more commented upon that she commissioned statuary in male physical form because she was a female ruler.
She inhabited the office of Pharaoh (it's a role, not a person), so presented just like all other people inhabiting that office. No trans issues. She used both male and female pronouns. She wasn't the only, or even the first female to be a Pharaoh, but she's the most discussed because her reign was controversial at the time and thereafter.

NotTerfNorCis · 23/02/2019 10:35

Slightly off topic but I see this is trending in AIBU:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3515516-The-world-has-officially-gone-mad?

My 11 year old DD went out to play yesterday. She came home and announced that 3 of her friends are now transgender, 2 are gay and 1 is non binary!

The ideology is getting everywhere.. it's going to burn out, surely.

NottonightJosepheen · 23/02/2019 10:29

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

FermatsTheorem · 23/02/2019 10:28

May I offer you - the Renaissance? All those men people in tights, just crying out for retrospective transing?

MillytantForceit · 23/02/2019 10:23

Betty Chewdoor, presenting as a man:

3.bp.blogspot.com/-Y1jJL_B3vdU/Uirr55tKioI/AAAAAAAADH4/F4UCRWjSChI/s1600/Elizabeth+I+in+coronationro.jpg

BertrandRussell · 23/02/2019 10:13

“, but I can't see where it's coming from.”

This. I keep asking “Cui bono?” but I can’t find an answer.

CigarsofthePharoahs · 23/02/2019 10:13

I prefer the Blackadder version.
I have the body of a weak, feeble woman; but I have the heart and stomach of a concrete elephant!

There are a tonne of female authors who've used male own names. It doesn't take a genius to work out why.

NotTerfNorCis · 23/02/2019 09:58

It's bizarre isn't it - that even Amnesty is swept up by this regressive ideology? It seems to be an attack on feminism, reinforcing gender roles, but I can't see where it's coming from.

BertrandRussell · 23/02/2019 09:50

What I wish somebody could tell me is how did this happen?

I quite understand how important is is for transpeople to have the same rights and protections as anyone else. To live their lives safely and unharrassed and to be treated with respect.

But how did what is actually a small minority of people get such power? Who benefits? How did we go so quickly to a position where the female penis is accepted as the norm, and Martina Navratilove is labeled a bigot for saying, basically that male bodies are generally physically stronger than female ones. Serena Williams says that she would be lucky to take a game off Andy Murray ffs.

Who or what is behind this? Where is the money?

AssassinatedBeauty · 23/02/2019 09:38

Amnesty should ask themselves where are their historical examples of stunning and brave transwomen, who lived their lives as women? Why are there so many examples of women taking on male roles and not the opposite? For goodness sake. It's so bloody obvious. Sexist fools.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 23/02/2019 09:35

When did amnesty switch their interests to this sort of thing? When I was a student they wereaways lobbying for real human rights. Not human wants. Well, men’s wants.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 23/02/2019 09:33

Amnesty is trolling.

They now have Dr James Barry on their feed as a trans man....

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LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 23/02/2019 09:32

She was the ruler. The rulers wore emblems of the pharaoh. Tie on beard and penis in the funery garb (I don’t know about ordinary day wear). It was also normal for siblings of the Pharos to marry. They believed in the book of the dead and animal headed gods. But I’m sure even they knew that you cant change your sex.

NotTerfNorCis · 23/02/2019 09:06

'Though she was born as a woman and used female pronouns, she presented herself as a King during her reign, and was portrayed as a man in her art and monuments. There were other female Pharoahs who presented entirely as women, meaning that Hatshepsut was unlikely to have been influenced to present as a man by her cultural environment. So while it's impossible to make a judgement about Hatshepsut's gender identity 3,500 years after the fact, it seems likely that Hatshepsut was not cisgender.'

She was a woman taking on a powerful role in a society where it wasn't usual for women to do so. What is this 'not cisgender' crap? Are Amnesty saying she felt like she was in the wrong body? Or that acting out male gender stereotypes makes her male? No proof for the first, and the second is extremely regressive.

I left Amnesty when they came out in favour of prostitution, to be honest.

BertrandRussell · 23/02/2019 08:16

“There are people on Twitter happily chuntering about their angel friends, fairies, alien abductions, Elvis sighting etc.”
Agreed. But they are not usually respected organisations with a previously proud history of robust civil rights advocacy.

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