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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Ruth Hunt is leaving Stonewall

411 replies

Whatisthisfuckery · 21/02/2019 16:21

Just seen this on Twitter.

twitter.com/ruth_hunt/status/1098604129394585601?s=21

I’d like to think her successor will be less homophobic. We shall see, although I’m not holding out much hope.

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CallMeSirShotsFired · 25/02/2019 10:16

So a Twitter poll is now the arbiter of justice in his tiny fevered mind?

And what "danger" exactly are perfectly normal, GNC kids in (I refuse to call children transgender)?

I would suggest that is one of those "leaks" where the author inadvertently speaks their own feelings and tries to land it on someone else. We all know where the real danger is; and it ain't an Irishman on social media.

EweSurname · 25/02/2019 10:09

Incidentally, Mr Watson, lead LGBT. advisor to labour, ran a Twitter poll on whether graham lineham was a bigot and on the back of that, has sent this to glinner

Ruth Hunt is leaving Stonewall
EweSurname · 25/02/2019 10:00

Mr Watson swooping in to save the day

Ruth Hunt is leaving Stonewall
R0wantrees · 25/02/2019 08:23

from The Times article,
Simon Fanshawe, 62, one of the original 14 trustees in 1989 alongside Sir Ian McKellen, called on the organisation to listen to concerns about its campaign to amend the Gender Recognition Act.

Ian McKellen and Patrick Stewart's close friendship is well recognised.

recent Guardian interview with Patrick Stewart:
'Domestic violence blighted my home. That's why I support Refuge'
(Extract)
"I grew up in a home darkened by domestic violence – which I wrote about two years ago. My father was an angry and unhappy man who was not able to control his emotions, or his hands. I witnessed violence against my mother and felt powerless to stop it. When Refuge, the national domestic violence charity, asked me to become a patron, I accepted without hesitation. I accepted for my mother. As a child, there was little I could do to help her. But now I can give support and encouragement to women who live in the same sort of fear that she did." (continues)
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/feb/05/domestic-violence-refuge-government-cuts

RedToothBrush · 25/02/2019 07:55

Like the people who aren't currently tweeting (or retweeting) in support of 11-year-old Desmond's right to dance for money in gay bars?

Yes that deafing silence.

When's the Olympics again?
I'm looking forward to that particular elephant in the room.

dianebrewster · 25/02/2019 07:49

I'm a huge Simon Fanshawe fan, he used to be chair of Council at Sussex Uni when I worked there. He was a consistent and sane voice of reason during internal politicking there. He looks at issues and sees the consequences of courses of action. He's never nasty, always a voice of reason calling for thoughtful dialogue..

He started out in this debate, months ago, by very gently pointing out to Stonewall that they should be facilitating dialogue, not closing it down. They really should have listed to him.

R0wantrees · 25/02/2019 07:47

illuminating 2014 Guardian interview by Decca Aitkenhead:
'Stonewall's Ruth Hunt: ‘I’m not interested in being the thought police’

Since she took over at the gay rights charity, Ruth Hunt has received fierce criticism for being too timid. She talks about life in the the era of gesture politics, the footballers who ask for her help and the battles she still wants to win'
(extract)
"Whatever the public narrative that’s now in place suggests, she says, such experiences remain commonplace. There is more to be done, she goes on, because anti-gay legislation was only ever part of the problem. For many gay people who live far from Soho, or any other gay scene, it’s others’ homophobic attitudes that blight their daily lives. “Those people would never say they were equal, or that everything’s great, no.” But attitudes and emotions cannot be legally defined and legislated against – so this week Stonewall launched a new “No Bystanders” campaign, urging not just schoolchildren but all of us to challenge or report any homophobic abuse or insulting language.

On the face of it, the campaign is blamelessly admirable. “It’s about taking personal responsibility to create a kinder environment in which we can all exist.” But it comes dangerously close, I suggest, to policing people’s private thoughts and feelings.

“I’ve got no problem with how people feel, they can feel how they want,” Hunt insists. “It’s how people act that I’m desperately concerned about. I am not interested in being the thought police.” (continues)

Social norms will always be more powerful than laws, and gay people in remote communities are never going to enjoy the same freedoms taken for granted in places such as central London until attitudes shift as radically as the law has. So actually, Stonewall is to some extent acting as the thought police, isn’t it? “Stonewall’s position isn’t about insisting that people think differently in a forced way. It’s about helping people to change how they think about things.”

It’s an important but subtle distinction. Unfortunately, Hunt has discovered from bitter experience that nuance does not translate well in an age of social media." (continues)

The instant liberal consensus was that Stonewall must sign up at once to a boycott of the hotel chain. Hunt’s refusal provoked the Twittersphere into such a fury that “it very nearly cost me my job. I got annihilated. The level of personal abuse was off the scale, and I wasn’t ready for it, or mentally equipped. ‘Ruth Hunt with her designer glasses, who does she think she is?’ It was really, really awful.”

Stonewall will not use the Dorchester in future, she says firmly, “because our supporters have made it very clear that they don’t want us to”. But despite her glum certainty that any new attempt now to explain her position will be futile, and only invite fresh vitriol, she still wants to try. Because, she explains, she is fed up with campaigners’ blind enthusiasm for “gesture politics which just make people feel better, but achieve nothing” (continues)

At Stonewall, Hunt has faced “social media comments saying a lesbian cannot represent gay people”. When I ask if misogyny among gay men concerns her, her careful answer suggests both that it does, and that she is anxious not to give her gay male critics a new excuse to attack her.

“I think misogyny is far more rampant in society than we give it credit for,” she says. “Across all sorts of walks of life, both gay men and straight men. It’s naive to think that because a man is gay he is less or more likely to be sexist.”

It’s a typically calibrated answer. Rather frustratingly, one legacy of that Dorchester row is a wary reluctance to say anything very controversial. For example, when I suggest that we might be better off without faith schools, given the doctrinal homophobia, her face tightens into a plastic smile. “It’s not for Stonewall to say. We work with whatever exists.” Whenever she says anything remotely bold, she panics about what the Stonewall board will say. Which is probably prudent, but makes me rather wish we’d met before she got the job." (continues)

www.theguardian.com/theguardian/2014/nov/21/ruth-hunt-stonewall-interview-not-interested-in-being-thought-police

FemalePersonator · 25/02/2019 07:31

Maybe Mr Watson is hoping to apply for CEO Stonewall?

chinny reckon

TimeLady · 25/02/2019 07:26

Times share token, if needed

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/stonewall-pioneer-criticises-its-transgender-extremism-pwc696ml5?shareToken=963b7a076613075adfee64ce81a63adb

Two particularly salient points:

Simon Fanshawe says: “When we said we wanted to live as gay people free and equal under the law, we didn’t want to tell heterosexuals that they were not allowed to do what they did or change their view of what being heterosexual was. We didn’t go round telling people they were homophobic.”

Ruth Hunt, 38, has announced she is handing over leadership of Stonewall after five years. During her tenure, trans rights have shifted to the top of its agenda. Sceptics claim this is an expedient, if unpopular, move to maintain funding after same-sex marriage was granted in 2013. “Hunt saw that the numbers of people identifying as transgender were rising and spotted an opportunity,” Jo Bartosch, of the women’s group Critical Sisters, said.

Oh, it's all going to come out now, isn't it? Just what we've been saying here.

EweSurname · 25/02/2019 06:49

Stonewall pioneer criticises its transgender ‘extremism’

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/stonewall-pioneer-criticises-its-transgender-extremism-pwc696ml5

One of the founders of Stonewall has condemned its “extreme” position on transgender rights after its chief executive announced she was stepping down.

Simon Fanshawe, 62, one of the original 14 trustees in 1989 alongside Sir Ian McKellen, called on the organisation to listen to concerns about its campaign to amend the Gender Recognition Act.

youllhavehadyourtea · 24/02/2019 21:46

Maybe she will give an interview to the Guardian.

A bit like Sophie Walker's interview after she quit - talked a lot round the houses about politics 'being broken' but didn't mention the elephant in the room, or why she actually, really quit.

R0wantrees · 24/02/2019 21:37

Stonewall co-founder Michael Cashman backs gay rights group’s ‘trans’ agenda as prominent supporter withdraws support

Michael Cashman has been consistant in his support for gay men and trans rights (not so keen on women's rights for lesbians/females)

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3220833-Frankly-disturbing-tweet-from-Michael-Cashman

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3108626-Another-Labour-misogynist

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3193464-Another-lefty-misogynist-twat

(see screenshot)
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3487958-Womans-Place-UK-statement-LGBT-Labour-witch-hunts

Ruth Hunt is leaving Stonewall
EmpressAdultHumanFemale · 24/02/2019 20:54

But the thing to look for is not what is being said but what is not being said. And by whom.

Sounds silly, but the principle is really useful to spot what's really going on.

Not at all silly.

Like the people who aren't currently tweeting (or retweeting) in support of 11-year-old Desmond's right to dance for money in gay bars?

EweSurname · 24/02/2019 20:50

Another article

Stonewall co-founder Michael Cashman backs gay rights group’s ‘trans’ agenda as prominent supporter withdraws support

inews.co.uk/news/uk/stonewall-co-founder-michael-cashman-backs-gay-rights-groups-trans-agenda-as-prominent-supporter-withdraws-support/

Simon fanshawe on the other hand, who is also a cofounder of stonewall, had this to say in response to jonny best’s piece on hunt’s departure:

Simon Fanshawe
@SimonFanshawe
Replying to
@jonnnybest
A really clear statement of the issues. Thanks Jonny. In summary, as you say, “The issues which complicate the relationships between lesbian and gay people and trans people need to be examined and discussed, free from accusations of transphobia”

Trousering · 24/02/2019 20:42

I just looked up Watson's company emplyee reviews on Glassdoor. If you don't know the site take a look.

I worked for a fintech start up for a while. The shitty reviews were completely true. The CEO hired a PR firm to post positive ones...just saying....

R0wantrees · 24/02/2019 20:41

But the thing to look for is not what is being said but what is not being said. And by whom.

Sounds silly, but the principle is really useful to spot what's really going on.

Not at all silly.

R0wantrees · 24/02/2019 20:40

GLAAD is interesting...

'GLAAD rewrites the script for LGBTQ acceptance. As a dynamic media force, GLAAD tackles tough issues to shape the narrative and provoke dialogue that leads to cultural change. GLAAD protects all that has been accomplished and creates a world where everyone can live the life they love.'

RedToothBrush · 24/02/2019 20:38

Think about this carefully:

Listen for the silence.

People will make a lot of noise if something is up.

But the thing to look for is not what is being said but what is not being said. And by whom.

Sounds silly, but the principle is really useful to spot what's really going on.

adultFemaleElf · 24/02/2019 20:37

They are behaving like children on that twitter spat. I can’t believe idiots like these people wield power and influence.

Popchyk · 24/02/2019 20:33

Feels like the big players behind the trans cult are being forced out into the spotlight.

Because they know that that they are not winning the PR game with the public.

Jan Gooding of Stonewall and Anthony Watson squabbling with Glinner on Twitter shows that they are rattled.

Wonder who else will step out of the shadows?

R0wantrees · 24/02/2019 20:25

Popchyk looks like its the same.

from link above:
"Top Corbynista Shadow Cabinet member Dawn Butler lived it up on a £14,000 nine-day junket to Los Angeles paid for by a Blairite guru whose company was incorporated in the Cayman Islands. Butler, who has gained something of a reputation for enjoying the high life since taking a job in Jeremy Corbyn’s top team, jetted off to LA last month, where she mingled with the stars on the red carpet at the GLAAD Awards.
Dawn was taken to LA by Anthony Watson..." (continues)

Ruth Hunt is leaving Stonewall
Popchyk · 24/02/2019 20:19

Is this the same Anthony Watson who paid £14K for Dawn Butler (Labour MP and Shadow Women and Equalities Minister) to attend an awards ceremony in LA?

order-order.com/2018/05/29/dawn-butlers-14000-la-jolly-paid-for-by-blairite-guru/

RedToothBrush · 24/02/2019 20:19

Just noticed that "see you in court" stuff going on with Anthony Watson

A court case on free speech would be very interesting indeed...

R0wantrees · 24/02/2019 20:19

Maybe Mr Watson is hoping to apply for CEO Stonewall?

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