#TeamNavratilova is gathering pace!

My favourite thing about this whole bunfight has been learning more about Martina’s career, as I was only vaguely aware of the extent of her achievements. She is a hugely impressive and admirable individual. I’m middle aged, so it pleases me to think this is raising her profile anongst younger people.

Martina won 10 Grand Slam mixed doubles events, the first at the French Open when she was 17 and the last at the US Open when she was 49.

I just looked up her wiki page because I didn't know this and bloody hell that's some career.

"Navratilova was world No. 1 for a total of 332 weeks in singles, and a record 237 weeks in doubles, making her the only player in history to have held the top spot in both singles and doubles for over 200 weeks. She was year-end singles No. 1 seven times, including a record of five consecutive years, as well as year-end doubles No. 1 five times, including three consecutive years during which she held the ranking for the entire year.

She won 18 Grand Slam singles titles, 31 major women's doubles titles (an all-time record), and 10 major mixed doubles titles, combined marking the open-era record for the most number of Grand Slam titles won by one player, male or female. She reached the Wimbledon singles final 12 times, including for nine consecutive years from 1982 through 1990, and won the women's singles title at Wimbledon a record nine times."

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martina_Navratilova

Yeah, she knows her onions.

Reading a lot on twitter
Seems to be why do women even have to justify no men in women’s sports

The men who want to be in women’s sports have to justify it.
And having a feeling doesn’t hack it

"Martina Navratilova’s recent comments on trans athletes are transphobic, based on a false understanding of science and data"

Wow!
If anyone is planning to go on a nice cruise ship holiday, remember to tell the captain not to go anywhere near the edge of the ocean where ships fall off
On a more serious note, the MSM needs to get these fruitloops onto a radio/TV programme with sane people debating them.
If they refuse to debate, then there needs to be a critical documentary which takes apart their ridiculous arguments.

Martina won 10 Grand Slam mixed doubles events, the first at the French Open when she was 17 and the last at the US Open when she was 49.

Odd understanding of feminism though:

"The feminist lobby has expelled Martina Navratilova for saying that a trans woman was a man before she could not compete with women because she has more physical strength and that gives her an advantage"

"The same thing I say to you lesbofoba and misogina outside feminism. Ps: Martina Navratilova has little to do with feminism, I'm talking about sports and women's rights."

Two things to say about those tweets:

Feminists didn't expel Martina - the LGBT group Athlete Ally did.

And feminism is women's rights!

My twitter translates (dodgy translation though ). As far as I can see, v supportive of Martina.

"Martina Navratilova has common sense"

"Even Martina Navratilova , who does not need any presentation, says it's unfair that a man born, who is now a computer woman against women, this is not homophobia is genetic"

"It's all very well for a champion like Martina Navratilova to speak , but anyone with a little common sense could have said exactly the same thing."

And from "Vox":

"Today we have learned the homosexual tennis player, Martina Navratilova has been expelled from the LGTB lobby when questioning the gender ideology."
and:
"Legendary tennis player Martina Navratilova has been expelled from the LGBT lobby for saying the obvious that a man who feels like a woman should not participate in women's tournaments. The statement that we vetoed yesterday in the Senate asked that they could. In VOX we are with common sense."

The other thing that doesn’t seem to have been explicitly mentioned - tennis is one of the few sports where men and women play in mixed teams against each other at the elite level.

I don’t know how much time Martina spent playing mixed doubles but I’m sure she she spent some. She knows what it is like to play against elite mixed doubles men and knows the differences and also the way the mixed doubles game is different from single sex doubles, in order to enable it to be a fair, interesting and watchable game.

There are very few other sports that people can play as adults in mixed games - they should be listening to the people that know through experience what it is like and how, if you are a woman, playing against a transwoman is like playing against a man not a woman.

Why would we bother dividing sport into gendered categories if we didn’t appreciate that men’s and women’s bodies are different?

This is the question for all of the sporting bodies to answer, who think that self ID works fairly in sex-specific sporting competitions.

HT to Freespeecher for pointing out the useful concept of Chesterton’s Fence: if someone wants you to change a policy you should ask them to before you change it, to set out clearly why it’s been put there in the first place.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3508086-GRA-and-Labour-Party

Men at Work deserve some support I think. Lots of women rising up today on Twitter. Not so many men sadly, and those that have seem bewildered that ‘no feminists’ are kicking up a fuss. It really doesn’t occur to some men that women don’t get airtime does it?!

Khmer Rouge is exactly right.
That Men At Work account looks great, props to them.

When I see the misogynists like @PinkNews use the word ‘educate’ in contexts like this I think of a cross between #doloresumbridge & #torquemada

I think of Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge.

Then there are always the lovely gulags that had book clubs and tea parties.

The views of male commentators in, say, cricket would be interesting.
Watching Sky's coverage of women's cricket the blokes clearly take it seriously and it gets good coverage. These guys see the difference and clearly value both equally.

If some of the high profile commentators such as Nasser Hussein, Michael Atherton, David Lloyd, Michael Holding etc. were to come out on Martina's side that would carry a lot of weight.

Likewise the commentators on women's rugby, for example, which also gets good airtime on Sky.

Chris Evert reckons there are "solid arguments on both sides". Feckin' coward.

I fear there are some men who'll only complain if there are TW in beach volleyball teams.