#TeamNavratilova is gathering pace!

There haven't been any transwomen in the Olympics yet. If they genuinely had an advantage, they'd be dominating women's sport.

The rules were changed in 2015 and require a year of lowered hormones, so no one would have been able to qualify for Rio 2016.

Good setting out of arguments!

For me, it boils down to women are not medically altered men, no matter the degree of alteration.

We don’t argue that a man with one leg joins the women’s events - people with disabilities campaigned for and established the paralympics.

Women’s sports aren’t a spillover category for anyone who can’t fairly compete with men - they are for women.

I've been following the TRA arguments for transwomen in sport. They are basically:

1. Hormone treatment weakens men so much, they're actually at a disadvantage or at least on the same level as women.

2. There haven't been any transwomen in the Olympics yet. If they genuinely had an advantage, they'd be dominating women's sport.

A few answers:

1. Not all transwomen in sport have had any treatment - they still have all the advantages of a male body. I think this was true of at least one of the trans competitors in Connecticut. This will only get worse with self ID.

2. Even if hormone treatment weakens the muscles, transwomen still retain other advantages such as height, lung capacity, bone structure etc. Also, despite personal anecdotes from some TRAs it's clear that in many cases, transwomen still retain quite a bit of their strength.

3. Britain was on the verge of fielding transwomen competitors to the Olympics in Rio (mentioned in another thread here).

4. Transwomen have been dominating other areas of sport... the Olympics are just a tiny part of the sporting world. It just takes one Rachel McKinnon or Hannah Mouncey to ruin sport for the female competitors.

5. I think (does anyone have more detail?) that there was only recently a change to the rules which made it easier for transwomen to compete. The effects of that won't be felt for a year or two yet.

6. In the future, what will stop highly competitive nations like China or Russia putting forward men who claim to be trans? There is precedent for rule-bending in the past.

7. If very experienced, high profile sports people like Daley and Martina are speaking out, you have to consider that they have a point. Especially as Martina worked alongside a transwoman, who as far as I know supports her position.

8. Some transwomen who participate in sport acknowledge that they retain male advantages (seen on Twitter, for instance).

9. Male and female sport is kept separate because of biological differences. Normally, tampering with biology using drugs is frowned on. If male-bodied people are being given drugs to weaken them, at what point do we judge they are adequately 'female' to compete in the female category?

10. The evidence is there in front of our eyes. Look at someone like McKinnon on the podium, towering over the women. McKinnon's body shape is still very obviously male. Look at Mouncey, or Hubbard. Read up on what it was like to fight Fallon Fox. There is no doubt that these athletes retain most of the advantages of their male bodies.

More and more women feeling empowered to speak out about this ❤️

This is fantastic!

Just spotted that autocorrect wants to make me look thick - raison d’etre, thank you spellcheck 😂 leave the poor grapes out of this.

Conversation

BBC Radio 4 Today
@BBCr4today
Today: Labour MP Dame Margaret Hodge (0710) questions whether she was misled by Jeremy Corbyn, something his office strongly denies; Foreign Secretary Jeremy Hunt on the Yemen conflict (0810); and marathon great Paula Radcliffe on transgender athletics (0730) #r4Today

Keep going sportswomen! This is so important and great

Do take one for the team and save us all the eye strain please MrsJamin

Australian Olympian Tamsyn Lewis Manou also speaking out

I just can't get over the fact that McKinnon has a PhD in philosophy. I mean that is all about logic, argument, etc. McKinnon is just hopeless in arguing any case, all McKinnon says is "You're a transphobe! I'm hurt! Hurt!" I'm intrigued what McKinnon's paper "Sure the Emperor Has No Clothes, But You Shouldn't Say That" says!

Or sexual orientations eg lesbians!

Another voice standing with Martina (and Sharron - who has been incredible)

Olympic gold medal winner Tessa Sanderson:

mobile.twitter.com/tessasanderson/status/1102704922582233088

They're dammit.
Literal autocorrect fail.

"The literal dictionary definition of transphobic "

Their not so keen on literal dictionary definitions when it comes to the literal Dictionary definition of a woman though are they. ( I do mean that in the plural - we can all think of another person that literally applies to).

It is mystifying that Rachel, who yesterday said that There is no one in the world who knows as much on this topic as Rachel does seems so ill equipped to articulate and defend their position.

This is their raisin d’etre. It should be a piece of cake for a credible academic to take apart arguments relating to their specialist topic that they say are so manifestly, laughably wrong.

Odd that McKinnon can’t ever seem to do that. Straight to the name calling. Crack on though Rache, I don’t care what everyone else says, you’re doing a sterling job! (Just not the one you fondly hope you are )

McKinnon left the well crafted arguments that everyone is terrified of in their other handbag.

Should've brought a gold lamé one.

Martina is a fucking LEGEND.

Not surprised that Rachel had been caught out fibbing on twitter, but since Rachel Rachelself was boasting only the other day that Rachel is literally the most knowledgeable and expert person IN THE WORLD in this subject, surprised they're totally unable to make their case in the presence of someone who disagrees with them.

That's classic Fairenuff

Blimey just reading down McKinnon's twitter feed, those people absolutely despise women don't they?

I would be in total awe of being able to converse with someone like Davies, especially about sport. Can you imagine what an opportunity that must be to any athlete anywhere, to share a platform with someone that accomplished? Regardless of difference of opinion, most would be WOW!

Where is the respect? Where is the intelligent debate and revelling in the knowledge? People can agree to disagree and still be respectful of each other. This egocentric weirdness is just astonishing, how can anyone behaving that way expect to be taken seriously about anything ever? I just see male entitlement and not too bright at that.

McKinnon left the well crafted arguments that everyone is terrified of in their other handbag.

McKinnon says she was blindsided by being interviewed with Sharron yet 13hrs earlier on her twitter feed she was saying that she would gladly be interviewed with Sharron. She's only upset because she came out of it looking bad.

Rachel wants to ask for a refund, I don’t think the therapy’s helping that much.

Literally.

Now I might be wrong, but I think McKinnon might have had McKinnon’s arse handed to them.

What was McKinnon's answer to the question about Sharron's comments being transphobic?