Times 16/2/1/9 Staff at trans clinic fear damage to children......

Some people feel strongly that they are “born this way” when it come to their gender identity, and they might find the idea of having, for example, “a boy’s brain in a girl’s body” helpful in explaining their experience.

Where did this idea of a 'gender identity' come from? Why should our identity be connected to 'gender' in any way? We have the biological reality of sex - we are male or female. Anything else is personality, and anyone, male or female, can have any personality. That is not dependent on our sex, much less our 'gender'.

It's the relentless pigeonholing which causes the problems - deciding how well we fit the pigeonhole that goes with our sex, and how we should label ourselves as a result.

Garrah describes it as a mental illness. What causes it - some kind of body-mapping thing in the brain, or a traumatic life event - I don't know.

This is something different. This is nothing to do with gender. It's a mismatch between the brain and how it perceives the body - a feeling that the perfectly healthy body is somehow 'wrong'.

So there seem to be two things at play here. There is 'gender identity', which says that female people should present/act differently from male people, which encourages girls to think they are boys if they reject clothing and activities which are labelled 'for girls'. Then there are the people with this mental disconnect between their brains and bodies.

I don't think it's possible to be 'naturally trans' either. I think it's possible that some people will suffer from such a severe dysphoria that surgery is the best option for them - the same way as I believe it's sometimes the best option for people who are convinced that one of their limbs shouldn't belong to them. In extreme cases, surgery will improve the quality of life for both these categories of people, removing whatever perceived (not objective) mismatch between brain and body has occurred.

I don't believe either group should be getting surgery as children, though. Or as anything other than a last resort. And most young people who call themselves trans aren't suffering from this sort of dysphoria.

RO thanks for that article.

See also: 4thwavenow.com/2017/12/07/gender-dysphoria-is-not-one-thing/

What is causing all this is autogynephilia [AGP] ... and these men lying about it under the guise of "gender dysphoria" and using children as human shields for their sexual behaviours.

article by Sue Donym, 'The Elephant In The Room'
concludes:
Please Discuss The Elephant
If there’s one thing you ought to do, it’s discuss the elephant. Please discuss the elephant. Don’t leave it rampaging around the room, destroying everything in its path.

Autogynephilia is a weird concept. It can be inaccessible. But it needs to be discussed in the LGBT community, and openly. Not talking about it is causing way too much damage — we have had our organizations taken over, our spaces colonized, and our sexuality redefined. Thanks to these men, you can no longer say ‘I am, gay, meaning exclusively same-sex attracted’ without being labelled a TERF. That’s not a good thing.

Dancing around the subject isn’t helpful. While the ultimate result of autogynephilia is homophobic rhetoric, is important to remember that a sexual fantasy, not homophobia, motivates such rhetoric. That is the root cause of the problem.

Worse is the effect on autogynephiles themselves. ‘Transgender’ is not an umbrella. It is a term that erases the very different motivations and causes of various forms of gender dysphoria. It does people who claim the label absolutely no favors. The original inclusion of the ‘T’ was designed for homosexual transsexuals, and include them with other same-sex attracted individuals. It was not designed to include autogynephiles, who are heterosexual males, or ‘queer’ individuals who are heterosexual but believe dying their hair some variation of neon should mean they are included. Making ‘transgender’ an umbrella not only erases the very different causes and struggles associated with homosexual transsexuality, it also obscures the causes of, and struggles associated with autogynephilia. Autogynephilia is not a condition I would wish on anyone. It is a unique, somewhat bizarre struggle, and reading through many of the accounts of it was quite sad. It can make its sufferers lonely and unable to connect with intimate partners. But enabling it, and on a grand scale, has caused immense damage to homosexuals, particularly lesbians, who have lost almost all their spaces and communities to colonization.

Please discuss the elephant."
medium.com/@sue.donym1984/the-elephant-in-the-room-dc822144a81b

Does anyone here think it's possible that a child could be naturally 'trans' and need surgery as the only possible option? Even if it's just a small fraction of those being diagnosed as trans?

Trans is an invention. There's no such thing as a 'trans child'.

What is causing all this is autogynephilia [AGP] ... and these men lying about it under the guise of "gender dysphoria" and using children as human shields for their sexual behaviours.

If "gender dysphoria" is real how come there are zero examples of adult heterosexual females who 'transition' compared with the number of adult heterosexual males who 'transition'? If "gender dysphoria" is real, surely it would affect both sexes in similar ways?

GIDS information for young people section:
After series of personal testimonies by transgender children, service statement:
(extracts)
"If you are asking about why you are questioning your gender or why you feel that you are transgender, then the honest answer is we do not know exactly why this happens to some people. There are lots of ideas and theories about why but when it comes to something as complicated as gender identity nothing explains things 100% for 100% of people. What we can say is that there are likely to be a lot of different factors that shape you as a person. Your biology, your personality, your life experiences and thousands of other things all add up to make you you.

Some people feel strongly that they are “born this way” when it come to their gender identity, and they might find the idea of having, for example, “a boy’s brain in a girl’s body” helpful in explaining their experience. Other people aren’t so sure. We know that how people experience and show their gender, and how people respond to gender non-conformity, is linked to the culture and the time in which they live." (continues)

"As a service, we keep in mind the different ideas and theories people may have about why they feel a particular way. It’s impossible for us to have one theory as we see so many different people, with so many different experiences and hopes. In some families, different family members will each have different ways of understanding things. Rather than trying to work out who is right and who is wrong, we value all of the different ideas that you and your family might have, and will think about which ideas are going to be most helpful in supporting you.

Many young people tell us that they are less interested in why they might have a particular gender identity, and that what matters more is getting the right help or support for them and their future.

Whatever anyone thinks, we believe that you have a right to feel or identify the way you do and you have a right to be supported in this, whether this changes or stays the same."

gids.nhs.uk/young-people#why-do-I-feel-this-way?#why-do-i-feel-this-way

Thanks morningtoncrescent.

I don't think there's such a thing as 'naturally trans'. That would require us to accept the idea that gender identity is somehow biological, wired in from (or before?) birth, and is pre-social and pre-verbal. There's no supporting evidence to this effect.

For some, there seems to be a powerful sensation that their body is not right - Kalvin Garrah talks eloquently about it on YouTube. www.youtube.com/channel/UC_qQ2_AVAh8pzj7yklimASQ Garrah describes it as a mental illness. What causes it - some kind of body-mapping thing in the brain, or a traumatic life event - I don't know. Obviously it's going to be difficult to distinguish between those children and others who're just attracted to the trappings of gender. Or are being manipulated.

I now know a young man who's come out as trans. He's a vulnerable person who's long had mental health issues. He seems to be rushing into it, wanting hormone treatment and surgery as soon as possible. I could be wrong but my impression is this person has come into contact with groups on the internet and is making a decision he'll bitterly regret.

I don't understand why anyone is taken in by the definition of 'Trans ally' as someone who actively obstructs attempts to investigate the issue to get a fuller picture. Why would you think that unquestioning acceptance that leads to extreme medical intervention is the only possible course, and flat out refuse to believe that there could be anyone who thought they were trans and were simply wrong.

What kind of an 'ally' to someone would do that?

September 2018 Times:
'Inquiry into surge in gender treatment ordered by Penny Mordaunt'

(extract)
An investigation has been ordered into why so many girls are seeking gender reassignment after the number referred for treatment rose by more than 4,000% in less than a decade.

The equalities minister, Penny Mordaunt, has instructed her officials to look into the cause.

Official figures show the number of girls being given gender treatment has risen from 40 in 2009-10 to 1,806 in 2017-18.

Last night a source at the Government Equalities Office said: “There has been a substantial increase in the number of individuals assigned female at birth being referred to the NHS.

“There is evidence that this trend is happening in other countries as well. Little is known, however, about why this is and what are the long-term impacts.” (continues)
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/inquiry-into-surge-in-gender-treatment-ordered-by-penny-mordaunt-b2ftz9hfn

Isn't Victoria Atkins (responsible for Child Sex Abuse & the independent Inquiry) conducting an investigation into ROGD?

August 2018 Victoria Atkins announced the need for an enquiry into the increase of children presenting for treatment.
Telegraph interview extract:
The women’s minister has said she is “cautious” about the number of teenagers undergoing gender reassignment treatment and warned the country needs to be “particularly alert” to the issue.

Victoria Atkins expressed concern that a rising number of teenagers were seeking “life-changing” medical interventions. Young people were undergoing treatment to change their gender because they regard it as “an answer to questions they are not asking themselves”, the minister said.

In an interview with The Telegraph, Mrs Atkins, who has responsibility for the Government’s gender equality policy, said: “I read in the paper recently that there has been a large increase in the number of teenagers who are identifying as such, and I think we need to get down to the reasons why this is happening." (continues)

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/08/26/womens-minister-cautious-number-teenagers-undergoing-gender/

Isn't Victoria Atkins (responsible for Child Sex Abuse & the independent Inquiry) conducting an investigation into ROGD?
Trouble is the trans allies are placed very high up in the civil service and the MoJ, DfE, EHRC etc and they are stifling all questions and responses. I've seen some truly shocking responses to women who have written to MPs and ministers challenging what is happening with their questions being ignored, belittled and on occasions deliberate lies written. And of course, you know the minister hasn't written the letter - it's a civil servant.

And poor doctors get stuck in the middle. Perhaps the £500,000 proposed lottery funding could go to Gids instead,so staff have the resources to come to the right diagnosis for each child.

This

@BetsyM00 how do you do sharetokens? The Times has published a lot lately on gender but I can't work out how to share the full article

This sort of thing is now being prosecuted - Dr Evil’s Body Modification.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-47198786
But not modifying the bodies of children?

Magdalen Berns
Published on 26 Jun 2016

'Transing a 5 Year Old Tomboy'

That’s a great article by Miranda

Miranda Yardley has written many great, referenced and important articles in my opinion.

Which should really bring into question why so many with considerable influence have sought to silence his comments on SM and attempt to smear his reputation and work.

mirandayardley.com/en/

It sounds like the report was commissioned by the service itself. It was considered by the board last week. What were they planning to do in response? My guess is the report has been leeked to the Times by someone who thought the board response would be inadequate and wanted to get something done, and keep the issue live.
It will be interesting to see if Gids do some kind of proper response to this article as its serious.

What will bring an end to this abuse of children is for the relevant Government ministers, Education, Health, Equalities, etc together to state that all these activities are to be stopped until more is understood about what is going on. This will end the indoctrination of children and staff in schools; the indoctrination of NHS staff all other pubic services by the lobby organisations. It will create space for questions to be raised and discussion free from the pressure of those lobby organisations.

That’s a great article by Miranda. Thanks

May 2017 Miranda Yardley article, "Common Threads And Narratives of Transgender Children And What This Means For Our Lesbian And Gay Populations"
mirandayardley.com/en/common-threads-and-narratives-of-transgender-children-and-what-this-means-for-our-lesbian-and-gay-populations/

November 2017 Miranda Yardley article, "Suffer the Children: How Young People Became The Collateral Damage Of Transgender Ideology"

mirandayardley.com/en/suffer-the-children-how-children-became-the-collateral-damage-of-transgender-ideology/

Wouldn’t it be great if we could go back to normal teen dramas without medicalising it. Questioning oneself and how we fit is normal. Kids should be able to explore this without feeling they are the other sex. How mad has the world come? This push to trans our kids is dark. Who is is benefiting?

Does anyone here think it's possible that a child could be naturally 'trans' and need surgery as the only possible option? Even if it's just a small fraction of those being diagnosed as trans?

I don't think there's such a thing as 'naturally trans'. That would require us to accept the idea that gender identity is somehow biological, wired in from (or before?) birth, and is pre-social and pre-verbal. There's no supporting evidence to this effect.

I do think there's a minority of children (until recently around 20% of those diagnosed with gender dysphoria pre-puberty) who will experience gender dysphoria long-term, and will need to transition as adults to live a viable, satisfying life. But from everything I've read, there's no reliable way of distinguishing that 20% from the 80% whose dysphoria will resolve naturally during puberty. Setting all of these children on a path to transition which will make it far less likely their dysphoria will resolve naturally is child abuse.

A far better solution, and one which wouldn't require medical interventions on healthy bodies, would be to try to break down gender stereotyping and address sexism. You know, like feminists have been trying to do for decades.