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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

And then they came for the heterosexual men

108 replies

EweSurname · 15/02/2019 04:40

I Asked My Crushes Why They Won't Sleep with Me

When a straight guy says he is not into me, nor other trans women, I feel butthurt–emotionally and, unfortunately, not physically.

broadly.vice.com/en_us/article/3kgvab/transgender-sex-chasers-cisgender-men

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IPokeBadgers · 17/02/2019 14:40

I read the article after it...the one about topping and bottoming. I now need to lie down as my head has exploded with the linguistic acrobatics if it all....

Oldermum156 · 17/02/2019 14:29

@ QuentinWinters

It's a pretty easy read once you translate it properly:
pre-op transwoman - man with intact penis
non-op transwoman - man with intact penis

DonaldTwain · 17/02/2019 14:26

Quite a lot of that article didn’t make sense. Insofar as it did I found it, and the person who wrote it, distinctly unpleasant.
Perhaps people don’t want to sleep with you because you’re creepy? Just a thought

Oldermum156 · 17/02/2019 14:23

As a transwidow still with my partner, I actually saw them reading this the other day so I recognized the article. This is them, exactly. They moan all the time about not being able to find a man who will see them as a woman and treat them like a woman. It is the game for them. The majority of TRAs are into forcing women to sleep with them but a minority, like the author and my partner, want men to see them as women. They have a fantasy about how women are treated by men and desperately want to be treated that way. The fact that no women are treated like this by men doesn't seem to ever dawn on them.

CircleofWillis · 17/02/2019 14:21

Also “I don’t want to be a member of any club that would accept people like me as a member”
Marx (Groucho not Karl)

Oldermum156 · 17/02/2019 14:15

"I thirst for the boys who have only ever chased cis girls. It’s these guys who won’t fuck me. "

Translated: "I want what I can't have"

R0wantrees · 16/02/2019 18:18

re-posting shorter extract of important and relevent extended article, which is worth reading in full

by Hacsi Horváth whose personal and professional experience including 'detransitioning' is significant:
I am an adjunct Lecturer in the Department of Epidemiology and Biostatistics at the University of California, San Francisco (UCSF). I’m an expert in clinical epidemiology, particularly in systematic review methods, epidemiologic bias and evidence quality assessment. As a researcher at UCSF, I managed the Cochrane HIV/AIDS Group for over a decade and on several occasions served as a consultant to the World Health Organization (WHO) in their HIV guideline development processes.

For about 13 years, I also masqueraded “as a woman,” taking medical measures which suggest, shall we say, that I was completely committed to that lifestyle. Most men would have recoiled from this, but in my estrogen-drug-soaked stupor it seemed like a good idea. In 2013 I stopped taking estrogen for health reasons and very rapidly came back to my senses. I ceased all effort to convey the impression that I was a woman and carried on with life

Published by 4thWaveNow:
'The Theatre of the Body: A detransitioned epidemiologist examines suicidality, affirmation, and transgender identity'
(extract)
Heterosexual males (the vast majority of men with GD) have autogynephilia.
Homosexual males with GD enjoy “femininity” and mistakenly believe this means they are “trans” or even women.
Females with GD have internalized misogyny and/or internalized homophobia.
In my opinion—which is based upon extensive research, as well as my own 13-year-long experience in pretending to be a woman–GD is only superficially concerned with one’s sex. It’s more a disturbance of identity, of mistaking the signifier for the signified. Patients have whatever mental illnesses they may have, or that develop while in the ruminations and hypomanic states that typically precede “coming out as trans.” I propose that GD is a moody, brooding syndrome that accompanies these mental illnesses. People with GD have cultivated an idealized vision of themselves as the opposite sex. At a critical point of rumination, after the patient has sufficiently disparaged his or her actual life and idealized life as the opposite sex, he or she realizes that body parts of the opposite sex may be obtained through the services of doctors (Raymond 1979, Billings 1982). Actually transforming into the opposite sex starts to seem feasible. The self-conception “splits” in two, and idealization becomes identity. Having negated any value in their actual male or female presence in the world, and now feeling themselves to actually be the self-generated persona, patients perseveratively ask themselves, “what’s stopping me?” “Feasibility” seems to trigger the split. Here begins the acute phase of GD.

Patients become obsessed with “transition.” To the same extent that they can be energized by the belief that they are making “progress,” as their bodies morph via the hormone drugs and shop clerks address them by their preferred honorifics (i.e. Miss or Ma’am for the males, Sir for the females), they can also feel destroyed by any little delay or perceived setback—including being “misgendered” or identified by others as their actual sex. Nothing else matters but “transition.” (continues)

"I agree with the late French psychoanalyst Colette Chiland when she said: “Transsexuals stage everything in the theatre of the body, and nothing in that of the psyche” (Chiland 2003). It is true that persons in the driven, obsessed stages of gender dysphoria can seemingly think of nothing except transition. No-one dreams of asking them to slow down, to seek psychotherapy... " (continues)
4thwavenow.com/2018/12/19/the-theatre-of-the-body-a-detransitioned-epidemiologist-examines-suicidality-affirmation-and-transgender-identity/

NB 4thWaveNow are "a community of parents & others concerned about the medicalization of gender-atypical youth and rapid-onset gender dysphoria (ROGD)"

Hacsi Horváth was part of the panel at the recent Washington event,
"The Inequality of the Equality Act: Concerns from the Left"

www.heritage.org/event/the-inequality-the-equality-act-concerns-the-left

thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3490776-Women-Stand-Up-in-Washington-D-C?pg=2

RedToothBrush · 16/02/2019 17:40

It took me working my way through much of the transwidows thread to finally get it intellectually. It's not about people just being, it's about fetish-driven transwomen doing, and doing what they do to women, particularly those who are close to them. There seems to be a great deal of barely suppressed rage involved. It is a very dark business.

Not a trans widow. But welcome to my world.

Apparently as my Mum told me, the person that my sibling most wanted acceptance from was guess who... This was after he tried to drive a stake in my relationship with my husband and being aggressive in how he wanted to pursue a relationship with my son.

It's an eye opener already. It's always been about sibling rivalry in some way. In the end, I guess they won in some ways as it destroyed my relationship with my parents but ultimately my husband and son were more important.

I read the trans widows stuff and think about how it's about dominating the family unit - whether it be wives, siblings, children or parents. It's about having to control that in someway and deal with long standing insecurities and inferiority complexs.

Datun · 16/02/2019 13:30

Oh, yes, I think that's an overlooked part of this. For those in the trans community driven by a fetish, the biggest payback isn't just validation, it's coerced validation when the target provides the validation against their beliefs and instincts, and the person with the fetish knows this and gets an extra hit from the validation being coerced.

It concerns me considerably that those with fetishes can use the trans community as a shield and lash out with impunity whenever they feel challenged. I have never seen anything like this in my life.

Me neither. The government truly is considering legislating a fetish. And they refuse to acknowledge it, even as a possibility.

Whether that's ignorance or arrogance, I have no idea.

But what it is, is absolutely unforgivable. It's patently obvious to anyone who takes the time to look how the rage involved in misgendering and deadnaming is beyond all rationality.

CrazyCrunk · 16/02/2019 13:27

Out of many irritating things, it was annoying that the writer refers to themself as a girl when they are clearly far over 18. And will probably still be doing it when themself is 60.

(Autocorrect is furiously underlining 'themself'; well I refuse to use correct grammar when the words I want to use will get my post deleted 🙄)

The use of 'punchable' / 'slappable' faces, wtf? Is that how men talk when I'm not listening??

TimeLady · 16/02/2019 07:34

nauticant

I agree, the transwidows thread is a real eyeopener.

FluffyHippo · 16/02/2019 07:28

I showed this article to my partner and, once he'd stopped laughing, he pointed out the elephant in the room: the majority of hetrosexual men he knows don't like cock and don't like anal sex with a person with a cock. That's why they're hetrosexual...

Mummyoflittledragon · 16/02/2019 05:58

Ereskigal
Yes, am no expert but am in agreement. Then add a disproportionately high number of people on the spectrum coming out as trans. Often those, most easily exploited and manipulated.

Ereshkigal · 15/02/2019 23:37

www.mentalhelp.net/articles/dsm-5-the-ten-personality-disorders-cluster-b/

NATALT, obviously.

Ereshkigal · 15/02/2019 23:34

Cluster B

nauticant · 15/02/2019 23:32

It took me working my way through much of the transwidows thread to finally get it intellectually. It's not about people just being, it's about fetish-driven transwomen doing, and doing what they do to women, particularly those who are close to them. There seems to be a great deal of barely suppressed rage involved. It is a very dark business.

Ereshkigal · 15/02/2019 23:04

Absolutely nauticant

nettie434 · 15/02/2019 22:33

Anyone else thinking that with really good psychiatric help, Sessa might, after a few years, have lived happily and successfully as a gay man?

I think this is a really important point from AnyOldPrion and the impact upon future sexual relationships is another huge reason why there are risks for young people and children of being offered puberty blockers and hormone therapy.

I do truly believe that if somebody with gender dysphoria would prefer to transition, fully knowing that they may find it hard to have a fulfilling sexual life in their new gender, then it sounds like the right decision for them.

But who can understand this aged 11/12? More to the point, would Mermaids or similar point out the disadvantages to them? Then, at the age of 20 how do you feel when you see your peers having fun, falling in love etc but you can’t seem to ‘meet’ anyone who wants you? You might ‘pass’ really well, get your dream job, but no legislation in the world can guarantee you the relationship you want. Sessa does come across as entitled but I’d love to know if anyone went through the cons as well as the pros of becoming a girl with her.

Maybe this is just my imagination taking things too far but I’d love to know the back story.

nauticant · 15/02/2019 22:27

Oh, yes, I think that's an overlooked part of this. For those in the trans community driven by a fetish, the biggest payback isn't just validation, it's coerced validation when the target provides the validation against their beliefs and instincts, and the person with the fetish knows this and gets an extra hit from the validation being coerced.

It concerns me considerably that those with fetishes can use the trans community as a shield and lash out with impunity whenever they feel challenged. I have never seen anything like this in my life.

Ereshkigal · 15/02/2019 22:07

YY nauticant. Many actively get a kick out of pulling off the most outrageous twisting of reality/truth they can get away with. And I believe they compete against each other to better it. Massive power trip.

nauticant · 15/02/2019 21:44

This distinction carries weight for some, because the penis is sometimes stigmatized within lesbian culture

That's like saying the lamb chop is sometimes stigmatised within vegetarian culture. Well, yes, because that's the point of being vegetarian.

Iused2BanOptimist · 15/02/2019 20:52

Ribosomes

Old age in 20-30 years time is going to be very interesting. Probably a lot more osteoporosis among those who didn't go through puberty** and also due to poor diets including the rise of veganism/dairy free diets meaning poor calcium intake. I think there will be a lot of ill health related to youthful activities. A gp I know is expecting to see more Parkinson/dementia type problems related to recreational drug use for instance. I'm not expecting any residual NHS to be able to meet the needs/costs.

RedToothBrush · 15/02/2019 20:34

This trans statement of 'the right to exist' is just a euphemism for 'the right to have what I want regardless of how that impacts on anyone else'. This includes sexually and with reference to boundaries and consent. The gaslighting and emotional blackmail are natural parts of that.

A women, on the other hand, who states her right to exist, is named a bigot, a criminal or a fascist for simply wanting to live their life without pressure from others to behave in a certain way nor being allowed to so no.

It is all about power and validation and pursuit of that power. And women are not allowed any of it.

Ribosomes · 15/02/2019 20:24

Part of me keeps wondering what they people are going to do when they hit 50. Will they stop taking hormones and attempt a semi realistic expression of a real female experience, the menopause? Or will they continue to chase the Male expectation of 'femininity'?

Because if this person is upset at not getting what they want sexually as a younger person, I can't wait to see what they think it's going to be like as an older person.

The crazy thing is, I've found the menopause a deeply satisfying transition; one that they might choose to bypass.

JC4PMPLZ · 15/02/2019 19:55

Swiss army knife pussy......that's a new one on me!