The Breast Book

Obviously you'd want to discuss these things with your children. I have with mine.

But what other unneccessary body modifications need addressing in a book aimed at teens and preteens about breasts? As we've mentioned breast ironing, is it needed to have a good few pages about the practice, just to make sure the idea is covered so no one feels left out?

What next, a book on the female reproductive system below the waist with a 'neutral' inclusion about FGM as just another thing that girls have done?

Enough with this cutesy choicey 'top surgery' euphemism bollocks. It is entirely unjustified to present a cosmetic mastectomy to teen and preteen girls as anything good.

I would agree that I'd want to discuss this critically with my child and I do think there's a place for this. Unsure if this is it.

From what I remember from reading the images, breast binding was briefly mentioned by the transman. There's no further discussion about it nor the huge numbers of health risks to ribs, breathing, developing breast tissue, skin etc.

My big concern would be that a child would go off and google binders and all
the associated stuff on YouTube without any information in the book. Or they already have and read it as a positive thing as it's in that book. It's ' all ok.' this adult made a decision after lots of careful thinking but had likely been binding for some time. This was skimmed over.

Then, in other parts of the country and world we have breast ironing...

I just want to pick up on this point that blueskies made earlier in the thread.

Children are exposed to trans thinking and gender stereotyping/ the equation of sex with gender (if only tangentially at first/ mostly) at school and in the media from younger than we like to think and if not discussed openly with an adult capable of critical thinking it seeps unexamined into their world view.

This is not an accident. This is the deliberate aim of organisations such as GIRES.

Understanding gender diversity starts here, at primary school level, before children’s views become influenced by the prejudices of the adults around them.

www.gires.org.uk/classroom-lesson-plans/

Also as observed on the police/ Mermaids training thread, these organisations are probably offering their 'training' for free, so schools will think that they are getting something for nothing - which they are, but brainwashing the children with sexist drivel probably wasn't what they signed up for.

And how is it even appropriate?

It is it a good idea to suggest to pre/pubescent children that there is a good chance they will hate their developing body so much that they will want to chop bits off. And they can. And that's fine

Publishing this guide to self harming your breasts for adolescent girls is very hard to understand.

Can we have a response from the author and publisher as to why they think this is appropriate?

It comes up a bit muddled.

It looks as though her three tweets are in reverse order. They make sense if you start at the bottom and work up.

I appreciate your concerns and I considered carefully the inclusive of a trans story. I flagged it up in the message to parents/carers as every family needs to use their own language. I feel Jack’s story is an example of an adult making considered choices after years of ...
..reflection and consideration. He even expresses mixed views about the removal of breasts which I felt was a valuable perspective. I am speaking to children who are hearing fragmented versions of the trans experience from different, often unreliable throw-away sources. I felt
his lengthy and considered approach was a contrast to that. However I accept some would prefer there was no reference to his experience at all. His is one story among dozens in the book and I feel it deserves to be told.

So this is the story of an adult 'making considered choices after years of reflection and consideration'. How relevant is this to girls going through puberty?

I'm in the apparently now quirky position of thinking that a book on breasts aimed at girls in puberty doesn't need to have any pages at all on why a girl would have a cosmetic mastectomy. Because it's incredibly fucked up.

Any adult normalising this irreversible self harm has very questionable ethics. Publishing this guide to self harming your breasts for adolescent girls is very hard to understand. She seems to be saying they will find out anyway so best if alledgedly trustworthy adults tell them its ok.

What has gone wrong with people?

twitter.com/Elfie41767774/status/1095630263097401344

It comes up a bit muddled. Some the discussion has been deleted I think.

She made the point that breast cancer wasn't hugely discussed as it was a book for teen girls and she'd come across/ done? research that they can sometimes get overly worried about normal tissue lumps and bumps which I think is a fair point.

However, the inclusion of the trans man's mastectomy is therefore equally highly debatable. I appreciate it's the story of 'an adult' but, safeguarding, ROGD, YouTube, etc etc.

can you link to the twitter thread, because I can't see anything other than her pinned tweet which doesn't say much, only one comment mentioning the mastectomies.

Gutted, Pinter and Martin often publish really interesting books on women's health subjects.

Yes. Absolutely.

And I'm certain this book is really needed. Really needed.

It's just this particular bit is not as PC as the media et al are brainwashing everyone to believe.

I put the letter on the twitter thread but I think she deleted the tweets. Not sure.

I will email them tonight and copy that letter in - it is a direct argument against what is being espoused in this book, from one of their own authors.

Any way of getting in touch with MM?

Letter by MM:

Susan Bewley et al Letter to the BMJ: Safeguarding adolescents from premature, permanent medicalisation www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3507254-Susan-Bewley-et-al-Letter-to-the-BMJ-Safeguarding-adolescents-from-premature-permanent-medicalisation

I'm not sure it was her choice, viva.

They are the publishers of the vulva book. Hurumph.

Yes, they publish Laura Dodsworth too. Though, it is her choice to include trans and NB people in her work - all three books in the series have them.

The pics of the surgeries never look right to me, mind.

Jesus. What happened to safeguarding and helping kids adjust to adulthood with healthy self-esteem? That used to be the goal anyway. Now it's ok to publish books about having breasts removed as a solution to discomfort with what we know is the most turbulent period of a persons' life, the transition from child to adult?

correct me if I'm wrong but aren't they the publisher of the vulva book that was in the Guardian? Because it is my view that the author was obliged to include a 'neo vagina', which would suggest they are truly woke.

Out of interest, are there any parallel books that tell boys that it's possible to have their penises surgically removed if they feel they don't want them?

I was just musing, as the mother of boys, how I'd feel about an SRE book that talked about testicle removal and testicle binding.

Circumcision is difficult enough,

I can hear MM's groan from here!

Gutted, Pinter and Martin often publish really interesting books on women's health subjects.

I know they publish Margaret McCartney, who's part of a group of medics writing in the BMJ and Lancet expressing concern about the lack of science behind trans kids treatment and that it is definitely may be doing long term harm.

She's really going to be unhappy when she sees this shit has been accepted by her publisher.

Yes, I think there are parallels with promoting self-harm, too.

Out of interest, are there any parallel books that tell boys that it's possible to have their penises surgically removed if they feel they don't want them?

This is dangerous for girls to read as they go through puberty and goes against safeguarding surely? Also anti-science. I will be writing to the publisher.

Oh and donor milk isn't widely available in the UK, there are very few milk banks, promoting it as easy to access is just wrong.

well, I've sent them a review which is 'pending approval' - it won#'t get approved but hopefully they will take notice and withdraw this book from sale.