A Blow to free speech in NewZeaand

Another update from SUFW with a long article from the NZ Law Journal on transgender ideology and the law. It requires close reading, but it is good to read a lawyer's nuanced analysis of the whole issue.

speakupforwomen.nz/transgender-ideology-and-the-law/

Wouldn't that be great yeah!

Ote I too feel her mind will be too closed off. I mean, if she has not grasped the concerns yet (not even close) what will open her mind? In saying that, Ani O'Brian mentioned meeting up with an MP last week so.....
She's either willing to listen, or just realizes what a bad look it is to keep shutting us up. (Bet we're still 'fecken turfs').
I hope SUFW pull a Martina.

An up date from SpeakUpForWomen re their Auckland meeting. Labour MP Louisa Walls will be attending, which is encouraging news. She did call women who were worried about Self ID "F.....g Terfs" though, so I hope she is prepared to listen with an open mind.

speakupforwomen.nz/labour-mp-joins-event/

In my view this just reinforces that the handwringing about the wrong sort of allies is misplaced. Those who seek to ban freedom of speech and freedom of association have the potential to do far more harm to society as a whole than those campaigning on single issues such as anti- abortion.

Absolutely, this ^

In my view this just reinforces that the handwringing about the wrong sort of allies is misplaced. Those who seek to ban freedom of speech and freedom of association have the potential to do far more harm to society as a whole than those campaigning on single issues such as anti- abortion.

The other kiwi woman it happened to was Renee Gerlich
i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/106356864/free-speech-battle-brews-between-feminist-and-transactivist-groups

I wouldn’t hold your breathe on Jacinda replying, she’s head of the woke brigade and cares more about kindness than protections for women

Napier Art Deco festival *

Apparently he's at Napier Art festival.
Do remind him TW remain men if you happen to see him.

twitter.com/flyinglawyer73/status/1095604099586945024?s=20

Pixiedust2017 I suggest you use the email form provided on the speakupforwomen website as an easy way to let your MP know what the objections are to the introduction of Self ID without a proper analysis of its possible effects on women's rights.

speakupforwomen.nz/email-your-mp/

If anyone has a template letter or a petition for the government on self id issues i would happily sign it and pass it on to my kiwi friends.
Im on my phone so cant tag people (because im too lazy to work it out) but to whomever mentioned her, dont get me started on the weightlifter...
I have only been in NZ a few years but I have already seen a MASSIVE increase in the number of those transitioning.
This is an issue that I worry about particularly as I have a little girl. It saddens me deeply that the rights her ancestors fought so hard for could be made redundant so easily and that she could be at risk as a result.

the MPs complicity in misrepresenting those concerns as prejudice and hate towards the transgender community is deeply disquieting.

Yes it is. As an ex Green voter I am pretty disturbed by what NZ Green, and Labour MP’s have said in response to women’s concerns.

The thing everyone needs to remember about NZ is it has the highest rate of DV in the developed world. It has been issued several UN warnings over its institutional racism, pointing out that NZ has not improved from earlier warnings. NZ is not any closer to including Te Reo Māori in its curriculum, the mere suggestion by anyone is met with fierce opposition in NZ & despite the public fawning over Jacinda, she is also not remotely interested in discussing or implementing that necessary change. NZ land wars are also not any closer to being included on the curriculum. I’m mixed race Māori of white appearance, quite prominent features, and I could give many many examples of my family who are all dark, being treated differently and ‘less than’ me, and I could talk about how I’ve been treated once people found out I was Māori too. The country is deeply racist, deeply deeply sexist and more besides. LGBT have a stronger influence than feminists ever will, because that community includes white men. That’s the reality. I actually spoke to someone at NZ Rugby recently about their inclusion of players who have beaten women. The woman I spoke to was great, but she knows that the cultural change it would take to shift towards a zero tolerance approach to violent men, and she and I both know it won’t happen anytime soon. The country is broken, and no amount of pretty scenery, fantastic movies or Rugby trophies, will alter that cold hard reality.

You are right Oxytocindeficient about the emotional manipulation in the article, but I suppose I was trying to believe Radio NZ still believed in balanced journalism. Though after listening to Katherine Ryan give a free pass in an interview to the authors of the Transgender Health report (see link below) and John Campbell fawn over Laurel Hubbard after they had won 2 silver medals in the Commonwealth Games I gave up on National Radio.
I do struggle to try and understand what it must be like to feel dreadfully at odds with your own body, and have tried to read as many personal stories as I can find (like the ones described in the RNZ article) to gain some insight. But the issue for me, first and foremost, is one of keeping the current rights of women and girls to have their own spaces, free of harassment and intimidation by men. If the government ensures that these rights remain protected fine, but I still have concerns about the monitoring of who applies for Self ID and what follow ups there will be. I would hope that these procedural issues would be ironed out in the Select Committee.

What has upset me, and many others I imagine, is the utter contempt shown by some MPs towards ordinary citizens who are merely exercising their democratic rights in raising concerns about a piece of government legislation. Furthermore, the MPs complicity in misrepresenting those concerns as prejudice and hate towards the transgender community is deeply disquieting.

researchcommons.waikato.ac.nz/bitstream/handle/10289/12160/Guidelines%20for%20Gender%20Affirming%20Health%20low%20res.pdf?sequence=2&isAllowed=y

However, my concern about Self ID has nothing to do with the transgender community per se, but with the fact that it was introduced without due diligence as to its possible effects on women's rights to sex-segregated spaces such as toilets, changing rooms, hostels, refuges etc

Maybe the push for self-ID in NZ is precisely to cut the burden of counselling and surgery on the public medical purse? If so, cynical and inhuman to the extreme.

People with genuine body dysphoria don't get the treatment they need, and women are put at risk of any man with a problem with women claiming trans status to get privileged access to women's safe spaces.

Oh well, I suppose the same thing could happen to people with anorexia - we'd save on budgets and food ...

Oxytocindeficient, really glad to hear a Kiwi acknowledging that. As a lesbian travelling around New Zealand I was initially charmed by the apparently progressive attitude of most of the people we met but the sexism and racism is all there beneath the surface still. It all began to feel very weird. The superficial 'look how cool we are' surface and the domestic violence, the expectation that women should be married by 30, the clearly dominant men, the religious influence still very prominent...

It’s not a particularly balanced article, it’s attempting to appear that way by having one GC women involved, but each point raised by those concerned about self-ID is responded to at length, dismissing any concern as unfounded. I didn’t appreciate the emotional manipulation involved in the article.

This is at odds with the process for changing a New Zealand licence or passport,

Yes, as it should be. Comparing changing a birth certificate, which is supposed to be an official documentation of your birth that is unchangeable, with a licence or passport, is utterly stupid.

Just come across this article from Radio NZ featuring Georgina Blackmore (SpeakupforWomen)and a Jack Byrne, whom I don't know. I think the author is trying to give a fair and balanced account of the issues from both sides of the debate, but the use of the word 'cisgender' does grate. However we have nothing to fear according to the Professor below:

Feminist academic and University of Canterbury School of Law Professor Elisabeth McDonald says there are very few laws where we make differentiations on the basis of sex. Where we do - like under the Human Rights Act, which makes exemptions for single sex prisons, schools and sports teams - we already accommodate people who have changed the sex marker on their birth certificate through the Family Court. McDonald doesn't believe that a law change will erode the protections these spaces grant women. "I really don't think we will notice a difference. The world will not stop. Women will not be less safe.

www.radionz.co.nz/news/in-depth/381878/sex-self-identification-debate-a-cesspool-of-harmful-stereotypes

I'm interested to know what others think about this article. I have my thoughts on "Jess" but will only say that their birth certificate should not be altered.

This Jamey seems to be calling women interested in women's rights dogs.

Describe posters that draw attention to this issue as dog whistles then the audiences the posters are whistling at are dogs according to Jamey.

Can Jamey explain why he has decided to publicly announce his decision that women are dogs of they have an interest in their own rights?

Is his company prone to insullting women in this way or is this a one off?

I’m not surprised, Phantom Bill Stickers did this to someone else whose name escapes me. They shouldn’t have a monopoly of the industry. Nothing surprises me about my home country, it’s one of the most sexist places on Earth and alarmingly a lot of people think it’s super progressive. It really really isn’t.

Indeed Pixie and Fidget
I should be concerned. Very concerned.
I was aware there are plenty of job opportunities for Drs interested in trans care.
Beware.