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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The Sun admit the Ian Huntley isTrans story was made up

232 replies

FeministFrequencyFan · 11/02/2019 14:18

twitter.com/theJeremyVine/status/1094931865318948864

A timely, if incredibly worrying reminder, that we should view all stories about minorities from our press with extreme skepticism. I hope this is the only fabricated inflammatory anti-trans story our press has published, it would be awful if the debate regarding trans rights was being used as cover by bigots to spread anti-trans hatred.

OP posts:
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CaptainKirksSpookyghost · 11/02/2019 16:00

This very obviously did happen so you're right, I am extremely confused by your revisionism.

Right and which rights were being rolled back?

this story proved that no trans woman should be in the female estate

Karen white and the others did this. But what rights have been rolled back?

FeministFrequencyFan · 11/02/2019 15:55

Op you seem confused, which right do you think this took away?

You seem to be suggesting that no one argued that this story proved that no trans woman should be in the female estate, not the ones with GRCs, not the ones who have gone through a comprehensive assessment by prison staff, none. This very obviously did happen so you're right, I am extremely confused by your revisionism.

OP posts:
LangCleg · 11/02/2019 15:54

Because this made up story was used to argue for a rolling back of trans rights.

LOL. Which rights?

What actually happened was that fundamentalist genderist activists rushed in with the acceptance without exception catechism, used social media to report "misgenderers" for "hate" aka apostasy, and have now been hoist with their own petard.

In common parlance: spectacular own goal.

Whatisthisfuckery · 11/02/2019 15:51

Hang on, I’m confused. The OP thinks we’ve been spreading stories about a child murderer identifying as a woman, is that right? Well no, we haven’t been doing that though have we. The papers printed it, because clearly it’s not that much of a stretch, and some people, again, not GC women and feminists, said that if Liam/Nicola Huntley says he’s a woman then s/he is a woman, and to refer to him as Ian is dead naming and transphobic. Not sure what any of that has to do with GC women and feminists.

And, of course, it’s a rediculous story that would never have gained traction if it wasn’t for self ID, and other male rapists and paedophiles being moved to womens’ prisons under the auspices of being trans. If it looks bonkers then some people need to ask why it would even be possible, let alone believable. We still don’t know how Ian/Liam/Nicola identifies though, so it might all still be true, or it might have been true at the time but Ian/Lian/Nicola now identifies as a man again because it’s not a goer. It’s got nothing to do with GC women and feminists though.

There’s one way to avoid such stories in the future, and that’s to stop putting males into womens’ prisons, then no child murderers or rapists or paedophiles need bother identifying as women at all.

CaptainKirksSpookyghost · 11/02/2019 15:45

You might wonder whether we should be so quick to take the words of people who are, by defninition, criminals

Has the penny dropped?

CaptainKirksSpookyghost · 11/02/2019 15:43

"Criminal lies about being trans"

"Yes, made people tripping over themselves to call him "her" look a bit stupid doesn't it"

"but it proves you want to get rid of trans rights"

"huh, which rights???"

.....

And now the continuation of "silence from the OP"...

deepwatersolo · 11/02/2019 15:42

Not sure what you are referring to OP. Surely, you cannot know whether Huntley currently feels to be a woman. Or do you have him on the phone right now?

Cwenthryth · 11/02/2019 15:41

twitter.com/janefae/status/1094937617869750272?s=21

Fae has chipped in on Jeremy Vine’s twitter feed saying “You might wonder whether we should be so quick to take the words of people who are, by defninition, criminals”

Well, yes, duhh!!! That’s pretty much what we’ve been saying all along!!!!

NottonightJosepheen · 11/02/2019 15:40

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

hackmum · 11/02/2019 15:37

Look, here's the important thing: no one here ever believed that Huntley was genuinely trans. No one thought that Huntley, deep down, believed himself to be a woman. We all thought that he was making it up in the hope of being transferred to a women's prison.

The only people who took Huntley at his word were trans activists. They were the ones who started going on about how we shouldn't misgender Huntley, and how we shouldn't "stoop to his level."

What does that tell you? What it ought to tell you is that the only people making trans people look bad were trans activists.

The fact that people like Jeremy Vine and the OP are now using this as a stick to beat up gender-critical feminists just goes to show how completely ludicrous and screwed up this entire debate has become.

Sarahconnor1 · 11/02/2019 15:36

Because this made up story was used to argue for a rolling back of trans rights

No it highlighted the insanity of self ID and the lengths people will go to to defend it. Here is lib dem Alisdair McGregor defending Ian Huntleys right not to be deadnamed. This for me is the story.

Acceptance without exception.

The Sun admit the Ian Huntley isTrans story was made up
Vixxxy · 11/02/2019 15:30

My concern was the length some people were going to to defend huntley, demand we all use correct pronouns etc etc. It was astonishing. Rapist hill indeed.

Quite.

Obviously stories should not just be made up, however, the reaction to it was what I found 'interesting'. Many TRAs kicking off that people refused to use 'she' and really, does it make a difference WHO it is? Someone would do it. And has since. Its predatory men who are the issue..and predatory men, regardless of how well known their name is, will take advantage while there is a way to.

LauraMipsum · 11/02/2019 15:30

I think we should definitely care.

First because this story was used to foment fears that had already arisen from Karen White etc, and to escalate existing fears, and I'm sure that it did cause real upset to ordinary trans people who do not deserve this horrendous appropriation of their identities by convicted sex offenders, much less to have the same attributed to one who isn't even claiming it.

Second because as soon as a rumour started that a convicted lying violent psychopath was trans, armies of the woke started patrolling social media to protect 'her' rights. Women were not being suspended from Twitter because Twitter thought the rumour was untrue, but because Twitter thought the rumour was true.

Both are pretty shocking.

ScipioAfricanus · 11/02/2019 15:28

I was unclear in my opening sentence - I mean accepting the claims of any person (without GRC etc) to be a woman is problematic if done unquestioningly.

ScipioAfricanus · 11/02/2019 15:27

Yes, all this proves is that accepting anyone’s claim to be a woman is highly problematic.

It is predominantly TRAs who are claiming that everyone used Ian Huntley to smear all trans gender people as criminals or sex offenders. Perhaps other people were claiming that too, but what I saw from feminists and women on Twitter was the argument that IF Ian Huntley gets to be a woman just because he says so, and the gets into women’s prisons, surely this is evidence of the massive safeguarding fail caused by Self-ID. And yes, people saying that of all the people whose pronouns you could respect, a lying child killer probably isn’t the one they’d choose to go out on a limb for.

I never called Ian Huntley a woman (was careful not to explicitly call him a man and this didn’t get banned from Twitter I like others...). I couldn’t care less what he’d like to make clear. But I imagine a lot of dead namers and miagenderers on Twitter who used female pronouns are now self flagellating as so many of us women who argued against him were told to do?

hackmum · 11/02/2019 15:21

OP, as you know, there have been two separate stories. The first story, which appeared in the Sun and elsewhere, stated that Ian Huntley wanted to be known as Lian. The more recent story in the Star - the one that Huntley denied - had all the detail about wanting to be called Nicola, and the wig and so on.

It could be that none of it is true. (Though the timing is interesting, coming immediately after the announcement that transgender women will no longer automatically be transferred to the women's estate.) Or it could be that the first story is true - who knows what the "Ian Lian Huntley" signature demonstrates?

The point about it, surely, is that it demonstrates a principle. What if a child murderer did decide to announce he was a trans woman? What should we do about it? It's nothing to do with attacking trans people, it's entirely about the potential abuse of self--ID, which we have explained a million times and yet which people like Jeremy Vine are apparently too thick to understand.

ZuttZeVootEeeVro · 11/02/2019 15:21

Because this made up story was used to argue for a rolling back of trans rights.

The rights of violent trans males to be house in women's prisons?

terryleather · 11/02/2019 15:21

Because this made up story was used to argue for a rolling back of trans rights.

What rights would those be? That males who identify as female should be locked up in the women's estate?

That's not a right, that's a ridiculous entitled misogynist demand.

QuintadiMalago · 11/02/2019 15:20

Spinabifidamom
Check your sources and also your posts
Huntley didn't murder two boys

CaptainKirksSpookyghost · 11/02/2019 15:20

Op you seem confused, which right do you think this took away?

OvaHere · 11/02/2019 15:19

Because this made up story was used to argue for a rolling back of trans rights.

Would that be the rights of male rapists and murderers to be housed in female prisons? You think that is some kind of human right?

NottonightJosepheen · 11/02/2019 15:18

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CaptainKirksSpookyghost · 11/02/2019 15:17

There's no 'right' that Transwomen have to be in female prisions. there's nothing to roll back.

Popchyk · 11/02/2019 15:17

So he's Ian Lian Huntley.

So non-binary now presumably. I'll just check the trans umbrella. Yep, he's still trans.

The Woke Stasi can get back to defending him now.

CaptainKirksSpookyghost · 11/02/2019 15:16

Because this made up story was used to argue for a rolling back of trans rights.

Which rights?

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