FGM and breast ironing. A different perspective.

I have a small feeling ... the problem is you just don’t accept trans people....
and maybe you hate us so much; your willing to sink to any level, including appropriating gender violence towards people of colour.

Basically what your saying is ... to enable trans people to re-assign/ explore or change their gender or sex... is the same or equivalent as people being forced into gender based mutilation.

It’s very tunnelled & dangerous for all.

We can draw links between the sexist society constantly bombarding young women with this coerced message that they must get surgery to be women, attractive or accepted. But this is just not the same as a young person questioning their gender

I believe it is, there is anecdotal evidence that girls wanting to transition have a higher rate of having been subjected to abuse.
The sexist society is what they (and you) are trying to opt out of. How can you say that isn't an influence?

Those FGM sufferers NEED to learn about Non-binary!

So they can be like "liberated white kids"!

Gender transition treatments are body modification in the most extreme.

You wouldn't let a 16-17 year old get their tong split, or dermal implants or tattoos. Even if the teen was insistent that look would make them their authentic self.

Peoples judgment has been clouded by wanting to be inclusive and understanding. But breast binding, surgery and cross sex hormones are not different to foot binding, breast ironing, circumsistion, tattoos, piercings ect. It's changing/damaging your body for no medically beneficial reason.

I'd been thinking exactly this before I even read the article. I just don't often have the vocabulary to express it.

It's all abuse dressed up as benefitting the child.

Children believe anything they're told by trusted people.

That's how abuse happens.

Anyway, you didn't answer my question. When are you going to take your liberation and share it with the 'people of Color'?

Don't keep it to yourself! What are you?

No, no super.... I DO believe that FGM is a gender based violence.
And it is totally on the same level as sexist rape culture that coerces people into augmentation.

But having vaginoplasty/ augmentation because you want to fit with an indoctrinated concept of your gender....

Is just not the same as a trans person changing their body to fit with who they really feel they are..... (often with more opposition than support)

Forced Mutilation for people of Color is just not the same as liberated white kids exploring their identity

Which one is "white feminism"?

Super.....
Your argument about coerced labiaplasty / body augmentation is comparable & valid.

We can draw links between the sexist society constantly bombarding young women with this coerced message that they must get surgery to be women, attractive or accepted.

But this is just not the same as a young person questioning their gender/ sex identity and independently seeking elective medical/professional/psychological guidance to safely explore this.

I'm a trainer on the issue of FGM and I'm happy to share information.

What do you currently feel are drivers for FGM if you don't think it's linked to gender?

I am aware of fgm aware thank you very much! I have worked with them!

I think they would be quite insulted too!

Im really worked up about it....
because it is racist to compare a forced cultural abuse, with a discourse of white gender consent.
It’s called appropriation.

Forced Mutilation for people of Color is just not the same as liberated white kids exploring their identity.

To compare the two .... is lessening the abuse awareness or fight against FGM
(Which is just about mutilation; not gender or sex identity)

It’s a bit like comparing a black person forced into slavery...... and a white person simply exploring their career options.

Sex/ gender debate is an entirely separate thing to FGM or breast ironing.

www.fgmaware.org

Another arena in which gender ideology has led to genital mutilation is the way teenage girls are pressured to get labiaplasty eg on Embarrassing Bodies, to look like women in pornography

Jax, you sound really worked up about this.
Firstly it isn't conducive to discussion to call posters racist for no reason.
Which leads me on to...
Secondly you seem to have created a monolithic idea of fgm in your mind.
It isn't always the same.
In some places such as Egypt it often takes place in a clinical setting.

Fgmaware website has some good info and a video if you would like to educate yourself.

I'd genuinely like to understand what is different about your non-binariness to ours.

I'd like to know as well.

Well, I'm in the US, and it's a genuine shitshow here. So many gender clinics, both private and academic, and most are operating under the "affirm and treat" mantra. The AAP (American Academy of Pediatrics) came out with a position statement recently advocating for full medical/surgical transition. Rest assured, the "Dutch protocol" (use pituitary blockers and start cross sex hormones, later followed by surgery) is coming your way. I can't imagine the NHS will buck the current trend.

I'd genuinely like to understand what is different about your non-binariness to ours.

Yes me too. It's a very reasonable question.

Jax, I think you might find that pretty much everyone on this thread is non binary too.

I doubt any of us identify with or perform all the gendered expectations attached to the sex we were observed to be at birth. Most of us are trying to overturn these societal expectations. Few of us actually 'feel like a woman'. We know we are women, whether we like it or not, because we are of the sex class that bears ova. We remain of that sex class even if our ovaries are malfunctioning or removed.

I'd genuinely like to understand what is different about your non-binariness to ours.

GeorgeFayne Really? After the Webberly nonsense they can get lupron at TWELVE?

My friend's 16 year old daughter is now convinced she is a son. She is breaking her heart because she desperately wants hormones. Can't get them cos not old enough and the waiting list If that kid had said she was gay none of us would have blinked. As it is, she has purple hair and a girlfriend.

OUTSTANDING article. The parallels are so true and valid. And the overt racism cloaked in enlightenment is equally tragic and fascinating.

terfsandwich
Love the comments.

Jax
Let me very clear about something: your idea that the only children transitioning medically and surgically are those who have had extensive psychotherapy and are over 16 (or did you say 18?) is just as much a fantasy as your gender non-identity. As a pediatrician, I have had a number of young patients with gender identity concerns. I have sent them all to a well regarded academic gender clinic. Most have been offered blockers and hormones on their first visit. Just had a 12 year old female start on Lupron and T. No psychiatric evaluation, no counseling or therapy arranged.

Don't try to gaslight us here. I know EXACTLY what the affirmative guidelines say. I know very clearly what WPATH recommends. I gave a good idea of who is benefiting...and who is losing. Your accusations of hate are ironic; we genuinely care. About women, girls, boys. Vulnerable humans being drugged and chopped for a sick, sick lie. I'm sorry you've fallen victim to it. Sending you hope for healing and peace with your inner self.

Just think about all those uneducated girls who don't know about the 65 genders, and about being Ace. You could run workshops in Khartoum and Mogadishu. Give them back the true knowledge about how there's more than two genders, that the British Raj hid from them.

Jax, off you go then to the Horn of Africa to explain to girls how they can identify out of their cis privilege to avoid FGM.

Im sure they'll be glad to hear about how non binary is a real thing that will save them from the patriarchy.

That way - - - - - - - - >

Your gaslighting won't work here Jax.