Sunday Times Front Cover. Trans Prison wings

Datun - yeah it's totally win win. There is no argument. If TWAW then if that wing is for TW by their logic it's a women's wing and by our logic we keep them separate from women to keep them safe and everyone is safe from men.

and they have to be careful not to make it sound like a MTF wing isn't safe.

Good point. And if they're all 'women' it can't be invalidating either.

Separate wings would be great. I think that would solve alot of issues.

One issue indent know how they will solve is staff.

Strip searches etc.

Will female staff be expected to pat down trans women?

If this does jn fact reduce the number of prisoners who claim to be trans then what will they do about socialisation?

I foresee some extreme mental health issues from.possible isolation.

Having said that I think its only fair. Because you can't go risking the safety of women in prison.

Yes, I of course think that all trans prisoners need to go in the trans estate. Prisons need to be sex segregated.

FlyingOink - I think they started it in the wake of the previous anti-recidivism initiative that failed so badly it actually increased it. The fools had a group therapy scheme, which the offenders spent giving each other ideas. I think, if we know one thing, it's that the authorities don't have the faintest idea how to keep women and children safe from these men and everything they do makes it worse, not better.

Does the U.K. not use depo provera for sex offenders, rather than lupron?

Yes I understand the point. But my question still remains. I suppose it might change to ‘if drugs are given to prisoners with their consent, are they told that increased gender dysphoria may be a side effect’.

"Chemical castration" is a phrase we need to challenge. I'm sure if you spoke to members of the public about their understanding of what it means, most would venture a guess along the lines of it being permanent etc.
It's not at all, it's meds that we are trusting the most untrustworthy men on earth to keep taking to make themselves safe for our benefit. We don't trust them to lock themselves in prison, why trust them to take Lupron?
In a prison environment, it makes sense. Outside? They sell it on.
It's a daft idea especially considering the cost.

Finally, absolutely absurd to put women at risk instead of doing this from the start. Only hope they give extra thought and protection to any post operative transexuals who may be at risk from pre op sex offending trans women...

Presumably those drugs are only given to prisoners with their consent?

Not the point the Twitterer is making. The point is: has this treatment induced a trans identification.

Edward Lord must be raging.

He instructed The Times to prevent Andrew Gilligan from writing about transgender issues, saying that it was a "fetish" for Gilligan.

And here Gilligan is again, out and proud with the "fetish".

Presumably those drugs are only given to prisoners with their consent? I still have reservations though.

They got the idea from OITNB, Happy.

Social contagion or trend? You might say...

Or even induced, Red?

Found her threads:

twitter.com/jennyrossity/status/1067498512252837889

twitter.com/jennyrossity/status/1067461985216942082

Thread begins: we should be afraid that in a cohort of 120 sex offenders given anti-androgens in prison almost half then decided to transition.

Note: this is to prevent re-offending and not a result of trans prisoners requesting hormones.

The 125 to 1000 includes the non-binary people (so I'm guessing the numbers of people in prison who already identify as non-binary).

That would only put trans and non-binary at about 1.2% of the prison population in England and Wales. Which is probably about right for the wider population.

More info from Gilligan on Twitter.

twitter.com/mragilligan/status/1094401005079400448

I’d only be impressed if all trans prisoners were in trans wings, it’s not appropriate for any male to be in women’s prisons.

Popchyk - that happens in orange is the new black! I watched it before I became aware of the self id issue but remember wondering at the time if it was common to do that.

Can anybody recall the Twitter user who has been posting about the new initiative in prisons involving giving hormones ("chemical castration") to sex offenders and who is concerned this may result in a large rise in already-convicted sex offenders identifying as trans?

Because an expected rise from 125 to 1,000 trans prisoners, as reported in the article, seems very high to me.

If the authorities have now recognised that self ID can be abused in a female-only prison situation, how can they justifiably say it categorically won't be abused in any other female-only situation, particularly where there is clearly less close supervision of the persons concerned?

www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/scottish-prison-sees-number-of-jewish-inmates-soar-as-they-claim-kosher-meals-1.63580

A prison in Scotland has seen the number of inmates identifying as Jewish rise in a scam thought to get them “nicer” kosher meals.

More than 100 inmates at Glenochil Prison in Clackmannanshire have signed up to receive kosher meals.

The prison authorities have had no choice to provide the meals to prisoners after they claimed to have converted to Judaism".

Two of the "suddenly Jewish" inmates at Glenochil are Gavin/Joyce Boyd (sex offender and murderer) and Andrew Burns/Tiffany Scott (reported as Scotland's most dangerous violent offender).

Both now identify as transgender.

If this is for real, it is fantastic news. Men's prisons are horrible and I can see how trans prisoners would have a shit time there. I can also see how, with no requirements for a medical transition, men with no gender dysphoria would say they were transgender to be moved. It's the one area where I genuinely think that men will use the ability to apply for a GRC even if they aren't trans.
If they can be housed in a separate wing, I would imagine that a lot of the risk to them would be reduced. Plus, as the mantra is that trans women are real women, they will be house with real women. It also means that more targeted intervention like therapy etc can be given, as there will more likely to be specialists who can assist the inmates. Trans women's needs are very different to those of natal women and it's doing everyone a disservice to pretend otherwise.

As for James Caspian's research, I am so glad it is going ahead. So much more information on this is needed.

This is immense. Protecting everyone is the only way forward.

TRAs will have to accept it because if they insist that the prisoners should be in with the women it's obviously for validation and they have to be careful not to make it sound like a MTF wing isn't safe.

These are the solutions we should all be looking for- protecting everyone.

I’ll not lose any sleep over how Karen White would be treated in a male prison but I doubt any prejudice would be because the other inmates perceive them as a woman but because they’re a rapist and child abuser. The same may not be true for a transwoman in for non violent crime so segregation from males who identify as male would seem sensible. Also safer for transmen who are not in the male estate.