Womb transplants for trans women are a human right, says surgeon

Is self ID law now?

Weren't they thinking of moving to assumed consent for organ donation I am sure they could use this in a campaign to show people how their organs would be used.

Or not.

I would just be concerned that it can appear that these boards are becoming a soap box for those who just don’t believe in gender dysmorphia and I hope that those who have more insightful views on this, do take time to assist with making sure that isn’t the case.

Diving did you read my previous post on this? No one here disbelieves in gender dysphoria/dysmorphia. It's more that those conditions are no longer necessarily what makes someone trans, if fact a growing number of transactivists believe it is discriminatory to require it or suggest that it is a basis for being trans.

If you stick around long enough you'll soon realise that the goalposts constantly change around what trans is and therefore what transphobia is. Without a doubt you will find yourself unexpectedly on the 'wrong' side at some point no matter how good an ally you consider yourself to be.

Who says that gender dysphoria doesn't exist? I just don't think that's true to say that's said on here.

Women getting angry about being erased and erosion of their rights is not the same as transphobia

I would just be concerned that it can appear that these boards are becoming a soap box for those who just don’t believe in gender dysmorphia

Be 100% clear my objection to this surgery applies equally to women and trans women. Children should not be commodities created by ever more elaborate and unnatural science to satisfy the selfish whim of an adult.

And I'd to offer to London and others who have mentioned their distress, I'm trying to focus on a number of things and I don't want to ignore you xx

However, I do think that the sentiments on the thread you shared don’t come through on the indivudual posts that I see on these boards. It does feel very transphobic.

It's a journey Divingintothis. Women have been hit, threatened with bombs, met by masked men with dogs, doxed, no platformed and threatened with rape, just for wanting to meet to talk about proposed law changes.

Law changes that the government are expecting to be publicly consulted on. They are expecting meetings to take place.

All I can say is to keep reading. When convicted rapists like Karen White (pic) are sent to female prisons and assault the inmates, you know there's something wrong.

Or where other countries are ahead of us, men are competing against women in sport.

Once you start to drill down, you uncover such rank misogyny that there is no going back.

It is about the law change. But it's more than that. Misogynists flock to the movement and it becomes pretty obvious, pretty quickly.

Diving, quite a number of us have been posting for some time in an attempt to keep the issues focused on women's rights, which is what this particular board zeroes in on.

But it's a very popular board, and no one poster is responsible for everything else that gets posted here, particularly when a lot of people come here with no intention of posting in good faith, and sometimes deliberately to goad and derail. It makes it very challenging to have any kind of rational, calm conversation.

Again, many of us know trans people, it has touched our families and friends, and some of us are even trans ourselves (I'm not, to be clear). This is not about denying anyone exists. It is simply about addressing a conflicting rights scenario and making sure women do not lose out, being mostly feminists here.

London I hope its all as bearable as it possibly can be for you and that you get a better outcome than currently predicted

Divingintothis
Please explain why it is transphobic to emphasise that pregnancy and birthing are things that happen physically to women, and do not happen to men.

Hadn’t finished writing and clicked post accidentally.

I meant to say I will continue to read and I’m glad to understand the context.

I would just be concerned that it can appear that these boards are becoming a soap box for those who just don’t believe in gender dysmorphia and I hope that those who have more insightful views on this, do take time to assist with making sure that isn’t the case.

@LondonHuffyPuffy I'm so sorry.

I myself have gone through 20 plus years of horrific periods, miscarriages and infertility. My bladder is now literally hanging out of my body. Getting the help I need has never happened.

This news has made me irrationally angry. I just fucking can't.

After all if they are already performing successfully this surgery in women who are born without a uterus or womb and are born with XY chromosomes (Swyer syndrome), so it is very likely to work with transwomen too

As far as I am concerned transplanting wombs into another natal woman is Frankenstein's monster surgery. The conditions referred to might well be terribly sad for the individual woman concerned- but ultimately- tough.

No one is entitled to have a baby created for them. We are not in any danger of running short of people.

The amount of time, energy, expense , expertise and knowledge wasted , not forgetting I'm sure the 1000s of tortured animals, on this abomination makes me furious.

Datun - just starting to read and the AGP point does give context to what i’ve read here and why people are angry with some aspects of the rights given to people who identify as such. Thank you for sharing.

However, I do think that the sentiments on the thread you shared don’t come through on the indivudual posts that I see on these boards. It does feel very transphobic.

Is it that some men feel that they could really do pregnancy and birth better than women??!!

So if you're born female, you can identify as male, and have children, if you're born male and identify as female, you should have the automatic right to bear children, but if you're juts unfortunate enough to be an infertile female, you're at the bottom of the pile. Because women are less important than the feelings of men.

There are some weird men who are so pissed off that it's women who gestate and give birth, and that gestation and giving birth is impossible for men. I find it baffling, but it seems to be a thing.

If you go onto any online dating site for lesbians you will find many male lesbians.

I meant to add that many say 'no trans' in their profile. (Just in case it's still not clear).

Floral - got it. I hadn’t considered that.

You're welcome Divingintothis. You sound like you genuinely want to know.

There is a lot to take in. But please just bear in mind that feminists are historically left-wing, and champions of minorities. It's unlikely that they have all turned into raging bigots overnight.

This thread might help explain the situation. Things have moved on slightly, since it started, but it's basically all there.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

There’s no way any of us can claim we know for sure whether gender identify is real or not, we just can’t. Lots of people here believe it is not (which is fine, completely their own belief), but they state that as fact on these boards, rather than opinion. It wouldn’t be acceptable to come on here and say ‘there’s no such thing as gay’, so it shouldn’t be acceptable to state there’s no such thing as trans. I haven’t seen it said on this particular post, incidentally.

Being gay has a clear definition though with observable behaviour. An analogy would be gay people being gay but insisting to everyone we recognise it as heterosexual.

There is also the Stonewall problem in that they have created trans as an umbrella term that covers such a broad spectrum of people practically everyone falls under it.

So on that basis what is 'trans'? Is it the people with gender dysphoria? People who cross dress as a kink and fetish? People who say they are trans without making any outward attempts to look like the opposite sex (there is a few of those)? Non binary people? All of the above?

The list goes on and on, go check out Stonewall's trans umbrella for more detail. I don't think anyone here disputes that gender dysphoria is a long recognised condition and used to underpin the diagnosis in those formerly known as transsexuals. Now though it's a massive free for all.

What does trans mean to you? Because if you provide a narrow definition you will absolutely be leaving out one group or another which of course makes you bigoted because the 'correct' answer is always anyone who says they are.

Datun that’s a fair answer, thank you.

Why does it impact anyone else what Stonewall say about this?

Because Stonewall are a powerful lobby group that purports to represent lesbians, and homosexuality is a protected, defined characteristic in UK equality law. If you can't see why lesbians might be affected by this kind of deceptive nonsense, stick around. There is lots to learn.

Fgs, glitter, that post actually started with the acknowledgment that gender dysphoria is real. No one thinks that transgender people don't exist.