Womb transplants for trans women are a human right, says surgeon

That said, I do stand by what I said. If there were a MEDICALLY SAFE (sorry for caps, don’t know to bold), way for this to happen, I would see it as a good thing.

Fuck you. I'm a woman with hormonal urges that are sending me insane to have a child I can't have and I can't get the medical help I need for that.

Fuck all this noise. It's utter insanity.

You can't see how what you're saying looks deliberately naïve, as everywhere is makin g it perfectly clear but you keep insisting and are not picking up on it.

Smother, this board is literally here for people to give their opinions.
I’m curious to know why you don’t think it would be a good thing? I’m not talking about the process of research/testing or funding, or priority over other medical advancements. I’m talking about the concept of a man having a baby safely.

Honestly not being goady, genuinely curious.

For the benefit of those who suffer gender dysmorphia and transition

Children should not an accessory created for the purpose of making their parents feel good about themselves.

-For the benefit of women in couples for whom pregnancy is unsafe

See above- maybe these women should come to terms with their lot.

For erasing the stigma that comes with being a woman of childbearing age and all the unconcsious bias that hampers career advancement that comes with it

What stigma is that? You're just making things up now.

The idea that a hideously expensive and complicated procedure, reliant on the availability of donated organs, will resolve the problems that some women have in taking a career break is just laughable.

AuntieOxident - nothing in my statement said I thought it should be a priority.

I don’t think medicine that will make me a foot taller should be a priority either, doesn’t mean I don’t think it would be wonderful if it did exist.

That's quite a goady thing to say to women who you now know full well their take on it. Why do you think we need to know you think this, when its such a frankly very odd thing to say? And using caps is equivalent to shouting. Just put a * at the beginning and end of each bold chunk.

Smother, I’m honestly the least goady person on the planet. I actually feel a bit sick at having being so angry with me over it. My instinct is to apologise and run away.

That said, I do stand by what I said. If there were a MEDICALLY SAFE (sorry for caps, don’t know to bold), way for this to happen, I would see it as a good thing.

Doesn't Stonewall take its name from the Stonewall riots which were transgender women and transvestites fighting the police after being arrested for being homosexual?

I think the big problem here is that a lot of people don't recognise that transwomen are women. And they believe that isn't transphobic.

Because if you acknowledge transwomen as women, then there is no erosion of rights. However, there does need to be a distinction between transsexual (transwoman or transgender woman), transvestite (cross-dresser), drag queen, non-binary. The last three are not women.

You mention Karen White... and yes, that's an evil piece of work. But let's not kid ourselves here that all women in prison are saints. Rosemary West did her fair share of crime against women.

Transwomen are raped, they are murdered, they are assaulted, they are trafficked, and they face domestic abuse too. So why the hostility towards them?

I only worked this out because of a comment on here... but from what I can see, 0.0005% of women are murdered by men in the UK. 0.0066% of transwomen are murdered by men in the UK (based on the registered number of transwomen who have been referred to a gender identity clinic in the UK).

BUT, this isn't a competition about who has the worst murder statistics etc. The point is that both women and transwomen have and still are being treated very poorly by men. That's the real fight. So surely the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

It saddens me to see all this venom directed at the wrong people.

And yes, a middle class transwoman might or might not be more vulnerable than a poor non-white lesbian... but I bet a poor non-white transwoman is just as vulnerable. The fact that we are having a competition on who has been most hurt by men should tell you that transwomen are not the problem here... it is MEN! But if we continue to attack transwomen instead of embracing them as allies, then we too become part of the problem. We become complicit in male violence. That is a problem.

I use the term alt-right because I spend a lot of time actually fighting the right people and I don't distinguish whether they're American, British or whatever... It is the internet and there is a lot of overlap. My experience is that a lot of incels and misogynists are also far right or alt-right and regardless of where they live in the world they support Trump. There's a lot of overlap.

And as for the womb transplant thing... seriously why does it matter? Why are people getting angry over something that doesn't affect their lives? Why not get angry about something that does affect our lives? As long as whoever is involved is a consenting adult and knows the risks, then let them get on with it. The chances are it will never be approved to be performed on the NHS but that's a discussion that can be held when it becomes an actual possibility.

In the meanwhile, let's try and be a bit more loving, a little less hating, and focus our attention on the real problem.

I would personally love to see a safe and effective developement of a method for those born male to have babies.

How about we focus first on research into helping the many hundreds of thousands of women coping with the misery of infertility, of recurrent miscarriage, incompetent cervix, and the myriad issues that affect our female reproductive systems?
When we’ve fixed all then perhaps the technology can be extended to help men have babies. That will probably be about the same time as when hell freezes over. (Unless yet more misogynist billionaires fund such research purely for the benefit of transwomen. )

I am mystified that people are so angry with me over this. I am literally just saying if there were a medically safe way for men to carry children, I feel that would be a good thing. Why is that spine chilling?

Science does a lot of we can do this, but not enough should we do this. Womb transplants are rare but a thing, although it is much easier to plug one that will allow childbirth into someone who has the right vessels there and space to put it in. The hormones aspect is also done for those with turners who sometimes can successfully carry an IVF baby whilst unable to conceive naturally. So actually the only new part of this is doing it all together in a trans person.

These are also all rather big and dangerous procedures, not to mention a normal pregnancy is risky for clots and complications. This seems utterly mental to me that we are pandering to this wish. It seems to boil down to - I want to be as much of a woman as possible, women carry babies, so I must. With no thought of consequence especially to the unborn child.

When you factor in the fact that this is not the only way to have a family it becomes lunacy imo.

However the woke right on trans activists will shut down any rational debate with annoying phrases like you can't know what I am going through and a list of ever increasing bizzare rights. No one wants a twitter storm these days (if you're on such a weird platform)

Having a genuine issue with posting, hence the unfinished post.

Was going on to say I never said it should be prioritised over medical advancements that would save lives, I’m simply saying I think it would be a good thing for it to be physically possible.

For a lot of reasons:

• For the benefit of those who suffer gender dysmorphia and transition.
• For the benefit of women in couples for whom pregnancy is unsafe.
• For erasing the stigma that comes with being a woman of childbearing age and all the unconcsious bias that hampers career advancement that comes with it.

I never once said it should be

Spine Chilling

You've lost me! Where are you coming from that you think it would be a wonderful thing to see men having babies?!?! Why? Why is this nonsense being entertained....its now goady shit

Gender dysphoria is a real, and distressing, condition. Autogynophilia is a real fetish. Recognising that the fetishists have been coopting the trans movement, to the serious detriment of both women and those who actually have gender dysphoria, is not bigotry.

And the surgeon is very clearly one of those cosmetic orientated surgeons who have not got their head around the difference between form and function.

Dangerous talk Diving fuck about with life, just because. That should never be a thing in anyone's mind. It strikes me in the realms of rats with ears growing on their sides, and making dogs with two heads, just because.

I would personally love to see a safe and effective developement of a method for those born male to have babies.

Seriously? Why?

Why not spend the time, money and resources curing illnesses and diseases? Alzheimer's? Cancer? All the congenital conditions?

I'm not sure you've thought this through. Well, I hope that's it.

Kite I don’t understand the tech issue comment?

I don’t know how you do it. I don’t know how any amazing medical advancements work. I’m not medically trained. Surely that doesn’t mean I can’t think it would be a wonderful thing if it did?

Bugger your "tech issue".

Please explain to us how you overturn very fundamental basic biology. Ta.

MN not working at all today! Or maybe it’s my phone.

I’m just trying to thank those who gave their balanced view.

I would personally love to see a safe and effective developement of a method for those born male to have babies. I don’t expect it in my lifetime but I think it would be a wonderful thing, if medically safe for parent and child.

I would just be concerned that it can appear that these boards are becoming a soap box for those who just don’t believe in gender dysmorphia and I hope that those who have more insightful views on this, do take time to assist with making sure that isn’t the case.

Everyone knows gender dysphoria exists. We have quite a few transwomen who post, who have it. They generally are those who do not say they are actually women. They know it's a psychological condition and presenting as women alleviates the symptoms. They support women.

In this country there are less than 5000 gender recognition certificates that have been issued. Whereas the trans population is estimated at 500,000.

Because Stonewall have included transvestites, AGPs, part-time cross dressers, non-binary people who say they are neither male nor female, gender fluid people who are male for three days and female for four (see Phillip Bunce of credit Suisse who won a woman in business award), and anyone who says they are (like Soham murderer, Nicola Huntley - Nicola being the name of the mother of one of the victims).

So yeah, the problem isn't really with genuine transsexuals. But, unfortunately, it's come one, come all.

And I'm afraid peoples hearts have hardened. It's really quite infuriating to watch a bunch of men decide exactly what the criteria is for them to get into your space. Is it surgery, longevity, 'prettiness', a piece of paper??

Without asking or even consulting women.

I've seen so very many programmes where this is discussed, 'from both sides'. And you get a man, and a transwoman!

Third spaces are the way forward.

I seem to be having a tech issue with the boards and can’t post without it crashing but....

Wales have assumed consent don't they?

Children should not be commodities created by ever more elaborate and unnatural science to satisfy the selfish whim of an adult.

This. Children have rights. Human rights, children are humans. Why does this seem to be so often forgotten?

What is being proposed here (implanting a womb into a male and trying to artificially and probably unsuccessfully maintain a pregnancy) would probably fail to pass ethics committees if we were talking about monkeys and about research, surely?