Womb transplants for trans women are a human right, says surgeon

This is very interesting on Mr Christopher Inglefield (from his GMC registration):

On five occasions in 2013 and 2014, Mr Christopher Inglefield failed to complete adequate surgical consent forms for a patient on whom he carried out a series of cosmetic breast procedures. He failed to record adequate details of the procedures on the consent forms and made written revisions on two of the consent forms that were not countersigned by the patient. This conduct does not meet with the standards required of a doctor. It risks bringing the profession into disrepute and it must not be repeated. The required standards are set out in Good Medical Practice and associated guidance. In this case, paragraph 17 of Good Medical Practice (2013) is particularly relevant: 17. You must be satisfied that you have consent or other valid authority before you carry out any examination or investigation, provide treatment or involve patients or volunteers in teaching or research. Whilst this failing in itself is not so serious as to require any restriction on his registration, it is necessary in response to issue this formal warning. This warning will be published on the List of Registered Medical Practitioners (LRMP) for a period of five years and will be disclosed to any person enquiring about his fitness to practise history. After five years, the warning will cease to be published on LRMP; however, it will be kept on record and disclosed to employers on request.

"Human right" - it's not even a "human right" for women without uteruses to have one transplanted, let alone a fucking man into whom it would be a complete and utter waste of time.

My 7 year old DD has a beard and moustache as a side effect from anti-transplant rejection drug, cyclosporine.
Considering how much time and effort many Transwomen devote to beard and moustache removal, I’m not convinced that many would want to attempt such a thing!

It's no concern of mine.

No. The point is it's feeding the same fetish as the surgeon contemplating male gestation.

Isn't an old saying "if men had the first baby and the women the second, there wouldn't be a third" I'm not worried about this

Apologies in advance, don't click if you value your blood pressure or are easily offended

But, really

Has the human race not got more important things to do?

I could not care less about this. It's a business marketing a product. It seems to have some purpose anyway in relation to dilation etc. Public money isn't going into it and lab animals not being tortured. It's no concern of mine.

It's an improvement on frozen tomato juice.

Quite NeurotrashWarrior

This sort of thing isn't even particularly niche. Or rather anyone who practices the fetish, is now much more legitimate than they would have been before. What was confined to the dark colours of the Internet, is now right In your face, protected, progressive and brave.

I'm not going to link to it, someone else might. But they are lots of places selling packers for three-year-old children. Plastic penises for three-year-old girls who want to transition. All of them looking like a miniature versions of adults penises. That they wear in their knickers.

People are being groomed in plain sight, and they don't realise it.

Would it be ethical to do this in animal studies?
Presumably 1000s of female animals have already been tortured and killed for the questionable, and in my view wholly unethical, purpose of transferring uteri to women. 1000s more would be tortured and killed for this.

It's not about wanting a child

It's all about validation and fetishisation

Look at the period stuff and trans women wanting to work in totally unsuitable situations...situations that are women only eg performing smears and working in refuges.

The baby isn't even thought about...it's all about me me me me

Apologies in advance, don't click if you value your blood pressure or are easily offended.

But, really.

Has the human race not got more important things to do?

sandrarose.com/2015/08/company-designs-tampons-that-bleed-for-transgenders/?fbclid=IwAR0j16tM968Sml9HEPbvzvvWopcOmJiEwcuGLMA_2SjaUrbb-K862wIvljA

ShihTzup

"During last Pride a group of lesbians had a banner saying a lesbian is a female homosexual. And they were vilified. Across the board."

The flyer they handed out was considered provocative propaganda.

The absolute cheek of this is difficult to believe. Anyone can read the flyer. Got Google? It's not bloody propaganda to claim that lesbians are female homosexuals.

Lesbians are being told to include penis in their dating pool otherwise they're transphobic. If Stonewall were supporting lesbians as female homosexuals instead, of supporting men and the 'cotton ceiling', none of this would be necessary.

Not looking to derail, but there are readers here looking for context and ascribing the objections to that Pride protest to that one banner is misleading.

No, it's not just that 'one banner'. But imagine thet a banner saying a lesbian is a female homosexual is considered bigoted, ffs. It encapsulates the problem.

Jazzbunny - transwomen are men. You can't change sex. It's pointless you giving us all this erroneous rhetoric, we've heard it a thousand times before.

There are more transwomen murderers than murder victims, in this country. Half of the transwomen in prison are in a high security/sex offender units.

There are already 12 transwomen in female prisons. And no, being a rapist doesn't exclude you. 64% of women in prison will have suffered from domestic violence or abuse. They don't need to be in a position where they cannot escape men. It's inhuman that in the 21st-century we are putting sex offenders in with the women.

And just for context, there are 14,000 men in prison for sex offences, and 120 women.

Until you can tell us what the word woman means when you say transwomen are women, it's pointless. And of course, you won't. Because you won't actually address any of the points made. Ever.

@Divingintothis

Men with gender dysphoria aren't interested in getting pregnant, any more than any other man. It's not about that. It's about the fetish.

There are numerous sites with transwomen with prosthetic bumps under their clothes, posing provocatively in underwear, dresses, etc. Along with claiming they have periods, etc. You can buy all this online. Prosthetic bumps, plastic vaginas that you wear like knickers, etc.

You are coming at this from a completely different context. A sort of futuristic sci fi land where wouldn't this be great, in order to address inequality. Whereas what's actually happening is a misogynistic, porn driven, totally impossible fantasy, is being mooted by an unethical surgeon in order to increase traffic to his clinic. It's just more patriarchy.

One of the characteristics of AGP is how the individual is a better woman than any other woman. It's vital to the fantasy. So this sort of thing is just grist to the mill.

If you want an insight into what this actually means for women at the coalface, this is a good thread. And then you don't have to take my word for it.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3101834-trans-widows-escape-committee

Not looking to derail, but there are readers here looking for context and ascribing the objections to that Pride protest to that one banner is misleading.

context:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3301033-Get-the-L-Out-Statement-by-the-lesbian-protesters-at-Pride-London

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3337090-Get-the-L-Out-Interviewed-by-Let-a-Woman-Speak

Dr Julia Long:
"Transgenderism & Lesbian Erasure"

People take their own lives over things like this

I have said this sooo many times now. It's not true. The stats from the ONS don't bear it out.

Even if trans women are officially classed as natal women, the stats still don't bear out this massive increase in suicides from people upset about comments made online or even directly to their faces (which no woman would do if there was the faintest possibility of being beat up for it)
Suicide rates stay broadly similar even going down in a minor way over the last decade.

And a lot of people were very cross with them for pushing in at the front of the Pride parade in front of the intended NHS representation, and holding up the whole parade on a very hot day.

I wasn’t aware it was NHS workers who complained about the protest by lesbians at Pride. I thought it was TRAs.

He's made a statement thats a complete fantasy, thats illegal in most countries due to standards of ethics, in order to promote his business.

Is this grounds to report him to the GMC?

Even laying the obvious misogyny, lack of care about the foetus and all the other male supremacist stuff aside...

... in order to learn how to maintain a pregnancy in the hostile environment of a male body, we would need to learn how to replicate the hormonal/endocrine environment outside the female body in an artificial womb.

And if we learned that - which is light years away - there would be no need (AGP gratification aside) for men to do the pregnancy.

It seems pretty clear to me that the surgeon, Christopher Inglefield, has made this statement purely as a way of promoting his own private practice, the London Transgender Clinic. I'm sure if you asked any NHS surgeon, they would say this is both unethical and impractical, in that even if you successfully transplanted a uterus into a man, it would be almost impossible for a biological male to carry a baby to term.

It’s a back door path to making abortion illegal, isn’t it?

“Look at this poor (trans)woman, she has had to fight so hard for the right to carry a foetus and it’s still’s still not working out for her - now DARE you even consider wasting your womb-function, cisscum!”

The woman that donated the uterus is as invisible as the surrogate mother.

Sorry to inject myself into the discussion but one thing that's bothering me about this issue is that we live in a world where a pregnant woman's bodily autonomy is still in question and debates rage on over abortion with women's rights being pitted against the rights of unborn foetuses. However, parts of society seem to be steaming on ahead intent on enabling males to unnaturally carry babies?? WTF is going on, where are the rights of the potential babies who would be effectively experimented on?

Also since when is it 'trans-female' to me that sounds like deliberate water muddying.

Gill implants! Now there’s an idea. If we’re going to set off down the path of transhumanism, why can’t we start with actual cool things that would benefit both sexes, like gills? Or wings? (Think of the urban planning benefits of everyone having wings.)

I’ve always wanted to be able to breath under water.

Would it be ethical to do this in animal studies?

What would be the point?

Zero.

Expecting a rational understanding of the science might be expecting a little too much given that we are being expected to accept that people can change sex because some fish can do it. Forgetting that the fish are not even the same species or genus or family or order or class as us.

Next up, gill transplants.

How do they intend to implant the foetus? Not up through the cervix as the 'neovagina' is just a skin bag. At the time of implantation the uterus, because I very much doubt the foetus would survive? Later on via key hole surgery? And this at a time when IVF is being rationed. And if the person has a miscarriage, how would they know? One assumes they would have to have regular ultrasound to check? Because they cannot lose the pregnancy in the way that women can. And the foetus would have to be removed by c section. With all the risks that involves.

This is just crazy talk. Gills would be easier.

I had to take a lot of paracetamol during pregnancy as I had several extremely high fevers at different points. I felt and do still feel so very guilty about that. There's a small link to lower fertility in boys if you take a lot I think. Fuck knows what the impact of the cocktail of drugs will do to a foetus in a mans body.