Womb transplants for trans women are a human right, says surgeon

By the way ‘attack’ doesn’t include ‘disagreed with on twitter.’

Of course they bloody are. Not all, no, but you can't possibly believe that none are ever getting attacked recently

And none are reported? In no media?

I googled "Pink News attacks on trans women in the UK " - this is the result.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/12/25/murder-trans-woman-malaysia/amp/

The only murder I found was that of Naomi Hersi.

You seriously think no transpeople have been attacked in recent times at all (by either a man or a woman?)

I’d very much hope they aren’t being attacked - we all have a right to live safely and nobody should face physical attack, work discrimination etc for their appearance or presentation.

I’d be very interested to see any recent UK report of a physical attack on a transwoman by a woman. I assume as it’s so commonplace you have plenty of examples?

Given that the murder rate for transwomen is lower than almost any other cohort, I don't see why it's a big leap to think that the attack rate for them would be the same.

I'm willing to be persuaded otherwise, of course. Gay bashing was certainly a thing back in the day.

But there should be some studies to back it up. Not self-selecting studies, either. They're not worth the paper they're written on.

Well maybe with all this desire for wombs the trans women will start to have a little more respect for real women... some hope but where else are they going to get them from?

In the uk?

Well I'm pretty sure it would be plastered all over the news and we'd never hear the end of it. So by the lack of any kind of reports I'm going to assume there have been no serious attacks on transwomen recently.

I don't have to look to hard to find reports of women attacked with an axe.. sexually attacked etc.. by transwomen

Interestingly, hormone blockers stop the front part of the brain developing in puberty which, in normal puberty, begins to over ride the immature amygdala that's responsible for immature reactions and thought processes. Hence teen strops as there's massive reorganisation. Blockers stop this important process.

Jazz of course I read the last bit.

Don't fall into the trap that this woman is writing about.

Brains are very very plastic.

Mindfulness has been shown to physically alter the brain's structure to reduce the size of the amygdala which is often responsible for extreme anxiety and depression.

A woman's brain is different structurally. Their pituitary gland will be set up differently to correctly deal with pregnancy.

Pregnancy physically changes the structure of the female brain for two years, enlarging bits that deal with caring etc. Interestingly, men who do a large proportion of early baby care also have some of these changes. Does it make them women? No. It makes them a parent.

She points out that minds (aka personality) are a completely different thing. There's no such thing as a female mind or personality. This is extraordinarily sexist and is exactly what women fought for to pr be they could do any job a man can.

There's more variation within each sex in terms of brain personality expression than there is between the sexes.

And show me where a transwomen has been attacked by a woman (or even a man in recent times)... I'll wait

You seriously think no transpeople have been attacked in recent times at all (by either a man or a woman?) how on earth can you possibly declare that as a fact and put on an I'll wait at the end?
Of course they bloody are. Not all, no, but you can't possibly believe that none are ever getting attacked recently.

So they're not murdered at a higher rate, they don't develop a female brain inside a male body, they're far more likely to be financially well off, middle-class, educated porn addicted, IT consultants. (Literally, there are loads).

But the idea persists that there is a fragile, trembling bunch of men identifying as women who must be given womb implants to save their mental health?

jazzbunny the idea of gender has zero scientific basis. It’s effectivey a faith based position. Now if you are religious and believe in souls then that’s your right and I can’t tell you not to.

But what I can tell you is that SEX is set at conception and immutable. humans cannot change sex.

There is no specific biological basis yet found for being trans. I suspect (and this is only my interpretation) that some predisposition to fragile sense of self is common to many disorders such as the dyaphoric disorders. The manifestation of that disorder is, i suspect, strongly influenced by the society you find yourself in. So anorexia for example, as a method of regaining control for (predominantly) women who find themselves in a situation they cannot otherwise exert power in.

The existence of ROGD and social contagion, especially in young females, seems to back this up. I know other professionals are thinking along the same lines.

The murder rate per capita of unicycle-riding clowns is probably higher.

both women and transwomen face the same attack from the same people

NO they categorically do not. A transwomen in the uk is more likely to be a murderer than murdered HTH

And show me where a transwomen has been attacked by a woman (or even a man in recent times)... I'll wait

You want me to show you the numerous recent reports of transwomen who have attacked women? Really? Cos there's quite a few

she is still saying that there is a difference, and these neuroscientists are still demonstrating through scans that there is a difference between the brains of transwomen and men.

Untrue. Check that thread I linked to. The signals are not causative. It’s not sure if they’re caused BY gender dysphoria or predispose TO gender dysphoria. There’s insufficinet control for steroid hormones being taken. There’s insufficient citations tell for homosexuality based signals, there’s no true control group at all actually. What they found is that the brains of self identified transwomen had some differences from the rest of the men but were still more similar to men than to women On average.

What it isn’t, is an ‘I’m a lady’ marker.

these neuroscientists are still demonstrating through scans that there is a difference between the brains of transwomen and men.

If this is actually true, couldn't it be used as a diagnostic tool to decide whether someone is 'really' trans or is just pretending or confused?

@Jazzbunny more transwomen are murdered in the uk than women

Where the fuck are you getting this offensive crap from?

Why don't you educate yourself.
2 women a week are killed by current or ex partners, male violence is the biggest killer of women aged 15-44 in the world

I can't go a fucking day where I read the news and DONT see at least 2-3 women killed, abducted, raped, attacked

And what evidence do I have that they're a vulnerable group... well for starters as a percentage, more transwomen are murdered in the UK than women.

In the USA, the murder rate of women is quadruple that of transwomen

In the Uk? Insufficient data. I think there have been two murders in the last eight years? That’s two too many, obviously. Also not enough to make any statistical assumptions from.

But worldwide, we can categorically say that actually, transwoman are LESS likely to be murdered than most other groups. Full breakdown of the data in this rather lengthy, but excellent piece

medium.com/@sue.donym1984/inauthentic-selves-the-modern-lgbtq-movement-is-run-by-philanthropic-astroturf-and-based-on-junk-d08eb6aa1a4b

I’ll pull the relevant bit out here “ So, how many homicides of American transgender people were there in 2016? I am sure you are waiting with bated breath for some kind of titanic, earth shattering number that will have you click ‘exit tab’, and bitch about my bullshit article on Twitter. Okay, here it is:
27.
That’s not a typo. It really is 27. The number of total murders in the US in 2016? 17,250, and disproportionately trending black and male. 27 is 0.15% of murders in the US. In terms of figures, the Williams Foundation did a survey and estimated the number of trans people at 0.6% of the US population. The US population is estimated at 325 million at time of writing, which results in a figure of 1.95 million trans people across America.
We’ll take 1.95 million Americans. If we figure how many trans people are victims of murder a year as a percentage, that figure is 0.0013%. Per capita, that’s a ratio of 1.3 trans people murdered per 100,000. The murder rate of women in the US is triple that, and of men, quadruple. Even with an extremely conservative estimate of 0.1% of the US population (or 325,000 trans people), we have a murder rate of 8.3 per 100,000. The murder rate of Chicago is twice that conservative figure at 16.02 people murdered per 100,000. In terms of gross numbers — that’s 11,535 murders of male Americans, and 3,292 murders of female Americans in 2017. 27 is small potatoes. That is not a murder epidemic — in fact it’s a murder rate per capita lower than Canada. It certainly doesn’t mean that there’s an ‘epidemic of transphobic violence’. That’s not something to campaign about — you’ve got it better than literally everyone else. Even if we use the Human Rights Campaign estimate of 750,000 trans people, which is half the 0.6% number, we get a murder rate of 2.7 per 100,000. That’s not a high murder rate. That’s lower than every other demographic in the US.
There are more bad statistics though. That same article tells us that “globally 1,700 transgender murders have been reported, in the past seven years, according to Arcus data” [emphasis mine].
Your eyes immediately drift to the ‘1,700’ figure, and don’t see the 7 years, do they? That’s why I bolded it. If we take the 0.6% estimate of trans people in the US and apply it globally to a population of 7 billion people, we get 42 million people. 1,700 divided by seven years gives us a grand total of 242 murders a year. That amounts to 0.003 murders per capita of trans people, worldwide, every year. That’s definitely not an epidemic. In fact, that’s a global murder rate lower than every other category on earth. The murder rate per capita of unicycle-riding clowns is probably higher. To #StopTransMurders would be to eliminate the homicide of an entire group of people, which no nation has been able to accomplish. Ever.
Maybe you think 42 million trans people on this earth is too big a number. So, we’ll make the figure 5 million people. A murder rate of 242 per year of a group of 5 million people is still a per capita rate of 4.84 — roughly similar to the US overall murder rate of 4.7. And that’s with a hugely conservative number that I literally pulled out of thin air. All these figures say the same thing — there is no trans murder epidemic — ”

Jazzbunny
If you believe that TWAW
Then they all are
As Treefloof pointed out.
They either are or they're not
It's extraordinarily Transphobic of you to suggest otherwise.
BTW
You lost me at they're brains develop differently
No they dont

The difference between male and female brains, if it exists, is a result of their prolongued exposure to different hormone cocktails.

Treefloof

You don't get to say only euphoria sufferers are TW.

Dysphoria

There was a transwomen on here last week, I think it was, who claimed that being trans indeed gave them gender euphoria.

That adopting the stereotypes of women made them feel euphoric.

It was pointed out to them that being paid less, being commodified, treated as lesser than, talked over and mansplained to, was generally not something that most women find euphoric.

I think we concluded they weren't actually talking about that part of 'thinking like a woman'. Just the dresses.

she is still saying that there is a difference, and these neuroscientists are still demonstrating through scans that there is a difference between the brains of transwomen and men.

But the differences are like height differences. The average man is taller than the average woman. But there are short men and tall women.

A person who is 6ft tall is more likely to be male than female (but could be female). An adult who is 5ft tall is more likely to be female than male (but could be male). Similarly, a scientist analysing a brain might* be able to say that a brain with certain attributes is more likely to be male than female - but it could still be female.

*I'm not sure whether this is the case or not.

jazzbunny

The papers on brain fMRIs are discussed here. www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3196135-Scientists-please-gather-round

I am a scientist and I can say categorically that the signals found do NOT mean ‘this is a lady brain.’ If you’re a neuroscientist and would like to explain to me why I’m wrong then please do. I’m all ears. The signals found seem to be associated with dysphoric behaviour, and are also similar to those seen in the regionassociated with fragile sense of self in disorders like schizophrenia. But anyway, those papers are critiqued in that link.

Men have male brains.
There is no ‘wash of hormones making your brain female*
Men are men.

I ask again - do you believe humans can change sex?

And what evidence do I have that they're a vulnerable group... well for starters as a percentage, more transwomen are murdered in the UK than women.

It would be good to establish the evidence for this before making such an assertion.

I just don't like seeing vulnerable groups being bullied

Objecting to the idea of transplanting wombs is not bullying.

Dysphoria