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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Womb transplants for trans women are a human right, says surgeon

766 replies

QuietContraryMary · 08/02/2019 22:14

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/transgender-women-should-entitled-womb-13972102

"Because once the medical community accept this as a treatment for cis-women with uterine infertility, such as congenital absence of a womb, then it would be illegal to deny a trans-female who has completed her transition.

"The most important step is the harvesting from the donor as great care is required to avoid damage to the arteries and veins supplying the uterus.
Trans females have a much narrower pelvis than cis-women of the same height, but there would still be room for them to carry a child.

“Supplemental hormones could be taken to replicate the changes that occur in the body when a woman is pregnant.

OP posts:
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rocketromano · 09/02/2019 15:26

I suppose it depends on definition of ‘attack’. If saying something as benign as ‘pregnant woman’ or ‘breastfeeding’ is literal violence then the attacks on the trans community is never ending
If by ‘attack’ we mean physical violence then the numbers will be much lower, and no doubt the aggressors in huge majority of cases will be men. But still very doubtful this would be more than the physical violence encountered by women and girls day in, day out.

As for womb transplants for tranwomen, it’s never going to happen due to the many unacceptable risks that would pose to the foetus. Assuming medical ethics isn’t branded transphobic and banned of course

MargueritaPink · 09/02/2019 15:17

It said attack. Not murder. People aren't believing they're attacked.
"If I can't see any reports on the net then it can't be trooo, they're not, they're all fine and dandy and nobody's getting attacked."
Right. Ok. There's no arguing with that kind of head in the sand stance

Even Pink News does not support your position that trans women are regularly being physically attacked in the UK. They did report this www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/10/22/hate-crime-attack-chester-transgender-women/amp/

You have produced no evidence to back up your claims that trans people are being attacked.

FloralBunting · 09/02/2019 15:13

Debbie's tweet.

twitter.com/DebbieHayton/status/1094229588065046528?s=20

Respect and love to you Debbie.

Treefloof · 09/02/2019 15:09

To repeat. In the UK
There have been 10 reported TW murdered in the last 10 years. It actually comes out at roughly 1 per year.
To context that, roughly 500 people of either sex are murdered every year.
Worldwide last year 369 TW were murdered and about 400,000 people of either sex.
They are not disproportionately murdered.
There are no stats I can find on attacks. Which means they don't report them. But neither do women.

CaptainKirksSpookyghost · 09/02/2019 15:07

Is Debbie okay?
Flowers if you are reading.

OldCrone · 09/02/2019 15:04

Gay bashing was certainly a thing back in the day.

Still is.
www.rugbypass.com/news/gareth-thomas-beaten-in-homophobic-cardiff-attack/

From what I have read about the bullying that Jackie Green was subjected to, it appeared to be because Jackie was perceived to be gay.

The child in the recent TV programme 'Butterfly' was bullied about being 'gay'.

In fact, a lot of so-called transphobia appears to be driven by homophobia.

FloralBunting · 09/02/2019 15:03

Yes, Debbie Hayton got verbally abused in Birmingham and has just tweeted about it. Funnily enough, it wasn't by radfems, it was by two blokes who initially thought they'd enjoy a bit of objectifying a woman, and then clocked Debbie as trans and abused them. I'm stone cold certain they haven't been reading the rad fems of FWR and felt incited to abuse Debbie. So the problem isnt with us, is it? It's with men. Which might be exactly what we've been saying all along.

CaptainKirksSpookyghost · 09/02/2019 15:01

Who has said they don't get attacked?

GlitterStick · 09/02/2019 14:57

How dare you. I said nothing about it being "all right"

That's how it came across though, sorry but it did especially coupled with others saying it doesn't happen and they don't get attacked.
Of course they do Confused

GlitterStick · 09/02/2019 14:56

And show me where a transwomen has been attacked by a woman (or even a man in recent times)... I'll wait

It said attack. Not murder. People aren't believing they're attacked.
"If I can't see any reports on the net then it can't be trooo, they're not, they're all fine and dandy and nobody's getting attacked."
Right. Ok. There's no arguing with that kind of head in the sand stance.

MargueritaPink · 09/02/2019 14:54

The only murder I found was that of Naomi Hersi

Only one? That you can find? Oh, only one, that''s alright then

How dare you. I said nothing about it being "all right".

You have no evidence whatsoever of attacks being unreported. You and JazzBunny are painting this picture of trans women being at risk of violence yet there is nothing reported to bear this out compared to the daily reports of violence against women and children- or even young men for that matter.

Given police have been having words with individuals about deadnaming on Twitter I think it unbelievable that the media, in one format or another, would not be covering actual physical attacks.

OvaHere · 09/02/2019 14:53

That article about bulimia reminds of one I read about a (Dutch?) official whose job prior to the internet was to make decisions about what type of porn depicting what acts was allowed to be distributed.

It was a fascinating article and he talked about the Pandora's Box/contagion element of introducing images and acts into the populous that the average person would never likely conjure up with own imagination.

I wish I'd bookmarked it or could remember where I read it because it was really interesting.

CaptainKirksSpookyghost · 09/02/2019 14:53

human encyclopaedia

Now there's a shockfest horror movie title.

CaptainKirksSpookyghost · 09/02/2019 14:52

So one murder, lots of online e reports of hate incidents involving twitter.

Bowlofbabelfish · 09/02/2019 14:52

R0wan every time you post, it’s something fascinating. You’re a human encyclopaedia

(Note, you have not literally changed into a book.)

CaptainKirksSpookyghost · 09/02/2019 14:51

Yes all the unreported murders.Hmm
The streets are just littered with unidentified courses of undetermined gender....

WeRiseUp · 09/02/2019 14:49

A bit late to the thread.

But how about how 'not believing someone has changed sex' = 'denying someone's identity' = 'denying their existence' = 'erasing their existence' = 'literal murder'.

Every time someone says 'humans can't change sex', thousands are 'literally murdered'.

Which is the most important thing. Far more important than VAWG.

DisrespectfulAdultFemale · 09/02/2019 14:49

without having to come here

Gosh. The solution for that would be...not posting here?

FloralBunting · 09/02/2019 14:48

I'm pretty damned sure that there aren't scads of murders of trans people in the UK going unreported.Hmm

GlitterStick · 09/02/2019 14:37

The only murder I found was that of Naomi Hersi.

Only one? That you can find? Oh, only one, that''s alright then. Hmm
Loads more attacks will go unreported, probably due to minimising and people who don't believe them
FFS.

NeurotrashWarrior · 09/02/2019 14:37

Another example of how brains are plastic and so gendered external inputs influence personality or 'mind' expression:

Many stereotypical girls toys do not include space shape problem solving elements. There's been a direct link between falling attainment in spatial numeracy skills and lack of these toys in early childhood. Reversed by more exposure to these types of toys and puzzles.

Datun · 09/02/2019 14:23

R0wantrees

God, that's very sobering. And with the advent of the Internet, the contagions will spread like wildfire.

And yet you still get people claiming that ROGD doesn't exist. Because it undermines the born in the wrong body narrative.

Dangerous, sick bastards.

R0wantrees · 09/02/2019 14:17

The manifestation of that disorder is, i suspect, strongly influenced by the society you find yourself in. So anorexia for example, as a method of regaining control for (predominantly) women who find themselves in a situation they cannot otherwise exert power in.

The existence of ROGD and social contagion, especially in young females, seems to back this up. I know other professionals are thinking along the same lines.

Bowl this article specifically about buhemia and social contagion is worth reading.
'The Strange, Contagious History of Bulimia'
(extract)
In 1972, a woman checked into London’s Royal Free Hospital to be treated for anorexia. “I found her symptoms to be unique,” Gerald Russell, the British psychologist who treated her, tells me. “They didn’t match the diagnostic criteria for anorexia at all.” Unlike his emaciated patients with sallow skin and big eyes, Russell’s new patient was of average weight. Her face was full. Her cheeks were pink as the skin of an onion. She was the first of roughly thirty instances of this unusual condition that crossed the threshold of his clinic over the next seven years, each person presenting with perplexing purging behaviors secondary to binge eating. Russell wasn’t dealing with anorexia nervosa, he realized, but something as yet undefined by psychology or medicine.

In fact, he had stumbled upon a condition that science had yet to see in large numbers or identify at any time in the long history of eating disorders. Psychological Medicine published Russell’s ensuing paper on these unusual cases; in it, he described the key features of this novel mental illness he was now referring to as bulimia nervosa. Many in the scientific community objected to Russell’s conclusions, pointing to the limited and problematic sample size he’d used. At the time, however, there were simply too few cases for Russell to draw from. The pool in the 1970s was just too small.

As bulimia gained further diagnostic legitimacy in 1980 with its inclusion in the third edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Russell ruefully tracked its unexpectedly swift spread across Europe and North America, where it infiltrated college campuses, affecting 15 percent of female students in sororities, all-women dormitories, and female collegiate sports teams. The disease moved through the halls of American high schools, where binging, fasting, diet pill use, and other eating disorder symptoms easily clustered. He chased its dispersion across Egypt, where the number of new cases grew to 400,000. In Canada, it swelled to 600,000. In Russia, 800,000. In India, 6 million. In China, 7 million. In the UK, one out of every one hundred women was now developing the disorder.

“It makes you wonder if maybe bulimia wasn’t a new eating disorder, that it was always there and people just didn’t notice it or talk about it before your paper came out,” I offer.

Russell demurs politely. If the hidden afflicted numbered as overwhelmingly high as they now seem, surely the condition would have made itself known well before he — or anyone, for that matter — identified it. “You might suggest it required somebody to come along and put two and two together before people felt safe talking about bulimia, but I don’t believe that.
“Until then,” he continued, “the disorder was extremely rare. But after 1980, it became widespread in a very short period of time. Once it was described, and I take full responsibility for that with my paper, there was a common language for it. And knowledge spreads very quickly.”

With this knowledge, Russell’s discovery took on characteristics of a pandemic that was set to claim 30 million people, but neither he nor anyone could do a thing at that point to stop it. He was confronted, he says, by a problem of entropy, a gradual decline into disorder with devastating implications for social contagions: once they are out, they are virtually impossible to rein it back in again.(continues)
www.thecut.com/article/how-bulimia-became-a-medical-diagnosis.html

The author Lee Daniel Kravetz has also written a book, 'Strange Contagion,Inside the Surprising Science of Infectious Behaviors & Viral Emotions & What They Tell Us About Ourselves'
leedanielkravetz.com/what-we-do/

OdeToDiazepam · 09/02/2019 14:17

Yes just to reiterate, I don't wish any violence towards transpeople

But I do get very angry when the violence women face is minimised like this, when it is shameful and abhorrent and I am so sick and tired of seeing it every. Single. Day.

reallyanotherone · 09/02/2019 14:16

And what evidence do I have that they're a vulnerable group... well for starters as a percentage, more transwomen are murdered in the UK than women

Are you talking about absolute percentages? That the % of tw in the population is lower so therefore one murder = a relatively high % of tw.

Statistical manipulation.

The rarer the population group the more each event skews the results.