Womb transplants for trans women are a human right, says surgeon

Any woman who has a “big operation” should then change her will, to bequeath her uterus to a deserving bloke in a frock.

How we’ll all laugh when she eventually passes on and they find there’s no uterus!

And I meant to add to my last post: in addition to being childfree, I am sterilized. Yet I still have a uterus. Why? Because not only is it important beyond carrying a pregnancy in terms of those things I said above, but because no doctor I have had would recommend removing it if it is healthy for all those reasons above.

But yes, we are now approaching a world where it a man wants a uterus, it trumps the health risks and rights of women who are in possession of healthy (but not being used for pregnancy) uterus. This doctor has himself said it. The “human right” of the trans women trumps all.

Some of those reports must be real, because these things do happen. I have personally been attacked.

I agree. But it must depend on the role a person works in, for example, if you work in nursing, probation or homeless services where you will encounter a large number of mentally ill and stressed people at close range - chances are you will be physically attacked, probably much more so if you have a 'protected characteristic' - but in IT, retail or catering - people getting physically attacked by clients or colleagues? I sniff bullshit.

Isn't that 227 women murdered in England and Wales? Not the UK, so the UK total will be higher?

My friend was one of the women murdered last year(by her partner) but in Scotland not England or Wales.

Bowlof - you are completely twisting what it said upthread and that I replied to

It didn't say UK women physically attacking transwomen

Great do we can establish that women aren’t attacking transwomen then? Fab.

No Male has ever gestated a child and none will.

Women:
-We're going to limit access to IVF, it'll be a postcode lottery as it costs so much/having a baby isn't a right/
-Don't eat pate/blue cheese/runny eggs/anything apart from organic knitted veg in case you damage the baby
-Don't drink
-Don't take medication. Even paracetamol should be used sparingly.
-We don't know if that medication which we need to give you for is safe for baby/breastfeeding because it wouldn't be ethical for us to experiment
-You're selfish/lazy for wanting a c-section. They cost more money! Pregnancy is a choice, you selfish harridan

Men:
-Take a shit ton of hormones to try and replicate the female system
-add in some anti-rejection drugs
-have a c-section
-take a tonne of drugs to try and induce milk
-pack a load of drugs in to your body which might transmit to baby. No ethics issues here
-Oh, an expensive transplant surgery, plus expensive IVF treatment..we can totally fund that!

Fuck that shit.

Jazzbunny

"139 women were murdered in the UK, including 21 from terrorist attacks."

As usual you are quoting false numbers. In 2018, 227 females were murdered in the UK.

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/articles/homicideinenglandandwales/yearendingmarch2018

I bet we will see attempts, but they will be attempts in countries with little medical regulation and oversight, or they will be done without proper approvals in one with. There will be deaths. Of the men, or the fetuses.

There are huge ethical implications around even doing studies on pregnant women due to risks to mothers and fetuses (to point many studies and trials are not done
even if they could have a huge benefit in terms of treatments), and yet some people think it is totes cool to run these medical experiments on men and fetuses, because men want it and the man’s want trumps the ethical considerations of all?

I am childfree (so yes, Jazz, that means I am on mumsnet and don’t even have children - danger with assumptions) but I absolutely recognize infertility can be devastating for someone. But I don’t think men who can’t carry a pregnancy are “infertile” (yeesh) and I don’t think in any case anyone is ever entitled to a pregnancy, or a child. I won’t allow my uterus to be donated to a woman either, because of my own feelings about having children, and definitely not a man.

Why it matters to me? Because I give a damn about women. Because I am one. Because my friends and family include women. Because I believe this is just another way to erase women and put men’s wants and desires over their voices, and their rights.

Because I can see “allies”, and trans men, and other women being pressured to give up their uterus to men who want to be part of this medical experimentation. And it would be a safe bet to say those who refused to give up a uterus they were not using to a trans men would be called transphobic and much worse.

A uterus is not just a “baby holder”. Hysterectomies can bring positive life changes to women who need them necessarily removed due to endometriosis, or terrible fibroids, or cancer but such uteruses would all be terrible candidates for transplant. Removal of a healthy uterus from a healthy women can have many complications that outweigh well, the removal of a healthy organ. Aside from just the surgical risk, there can be pelvic floor weakness (prolapses), painful sex due to scarring of the effects of a hysterectomy can have on cervix and vaginal canal movement, but even loss of sexual pleasure (uterine contractions can be part of orgasm for some women), etc.

WeRiseUp
I used to believe in self-reported hate crime. I know gay people were unlikely to call the police for a gay bashing. I never called them when I was beaten up. I know black people don't trust the police.

But you know what? I don't believe this self reporting at all. Not just trans attacks, but homophobic attacks, racist attacks, islamophobic attacks. I don't believe they are happening at the same rate as the self-reporting.
Just like I didn't believe a my classmates were all having sex at fourteen (they weren't) or that Bob's ex-wife stops him seeing his kids because she's a twisted evil harpy (and Mark's, and Steve's, and Lee's, and Phil's, and Gary's and and and).
Self-reporting, to a sympathetic organisation only, can be motivated by anything. The only gay in the village who is convinced homophobia is all around, because it makes him more special.
It's not even anonymous reporting to crimewatch, or crimestoppers. It's self reporting to a charity or quango type org. Who then just compile numbers and press releases, which somehow become compounded into hard facts.

Some of those reports must be real, because these things do happen. I have personally been attacked. But I reckon it's a small percentage. We aren't seeing third parties calling 999 for dazed and bleeding transwomen everywhere are we? There's no criminal damage being reported for fights in bars, shops, wherever. Taxi drivers aren't refusing to take gangs of skinheads to places where they beat transwomen. This all appears to happen in a vacuum. So I don't believe it. Self-selecting surveys, self-reporting crime, self-identifying nonsense.

It’s illegal anyway - the HFEA doesn’t allow it.

It’s not going to happen, not with our lifetimes.

Oh my goodness. The transadvocate link is slandering and misrepresenting Linda Bellos saying "if one of those bastards comes near me I'll take my glasses off and thump them" - when she was referring to the thugs who beat up Maria Mclachlan. I don't think anyone knew the assailants 'identities' were female at that point. Tall males with big fists I think was more pertinent I can't believe these concocted pieces of bullshit are being linked to today.

Ok. There's no arguing with that kind of head in the sand stance

What, asking for evidence? Yeah, there’s no arguing with data.

If you make extraordinary claims, like ‘transwomen are literally being attacked in the Uk by women’ you need to back it up. We need to see evidence.

You saying it all goes unreported isnt good enough. Since the police are calling 74 year old women to warn them for benign and entirely factual remarks made online then I dont think the police are unsympathetic are they? They’ve also warned a bloke for just liking a limerick online and actually detained a woman in the cells overnight for factual remarks. You can’t possibly be saying that an actual attack on a transwoman by a woman would be ignored by the police? Surely? When Susie green can use them as her personal attack force? The police are totally woke - I don’t buy for a second that attacks go unreported.

(Unlike women - that awful case in South Wales springs to mind...)

So where are these Uk examples of transwomen facing violent attack by women? Not ‘disagreement on twitter’, but actual attack? Where are they?

They don’t exist. It’s a false premise to align a group who are not at all marginalised (white middle class males) as an oppressed group. Like the suicide stats which are also made up to force a different risk/balance calculation for affirmative treatment.

and none of it has anything to do with womb transplants

Agree!

It didn't say UK women physically attacking transwomen

The post I was quoting was where it said by woman OR man and that they'd wait insinuating it doesn't happen at all by anyone.
You're tacking it to just women when it didn't say that at all.

Blokes will never birth a baby. It's insulting to try to colonise and appropriate this exclusively female experience. Nothing makes the maleness as stark as demanding and mansplaining an experience that they are completely cut off from.
That some transwomen would prefer to push for narcissistic, impossible and dangerous surgeries for themselves - harvesting body parts from women along the way, rather than to identify with, ally with and support women, speaks volumes.

Have some fucking respect.

Right, so there are a gazillion incomprehensibly unreported attacks on trans males in the UK every single nano second and so therefore... what? We bigoted crones should report to the re-education centre and donate our wombs to them for impossible uterine transplants at 9am sharp Monday morning?

WTF?

Look. Horrible men do horrible things to women because they are misogynists. Misogyny is not the reason that horrible men do horrible things to trans males. The impetus is twinned to homophobia, not misogyny. The horrible men aren't seeing women when they do horrible things to trans males: they are seeing failed/bad men. Doesn't make it any better - but it is nothing to do with women and everything to do with horrible men.

You know it. I know it. The horrible men know it. The trans people know it.

And none of it has anything to do with womb transplants.

other

Almost 900 [self selected?] trans and non-binary people took part in the investigation by charity Stonewall, which campaigns on LGBT rights, revealing how respondents had been publicly shamed, sworn at, and physically attacked.

“What we have found is deeply worrying,” Ruth Hunt, Stonewall chief executive said. “Hate crime and discrimination against trans people, on our streets, in our hospitals, in workplaces and at universities, is widespread.

“Two in five trans people had to deal with a hate crime or incident in the past 12 months. [does this include disagreeing with people on twitter or reading blogs where people say things they don't like?] Many trans people are forced to hide who they are, change how they dress or drop out of university because of fear of discrimination. ['Fear of discrimination? What exactly is that discrimination? Not being able to access the facilities of the opposite sex? People not convincingly pretending to perceive them as the opposite sex?] In our workplaces, half of trans and non-binary people have hidden or disguised that they are LGBT for this reason, [how does this deception impact upon a woman who believes a male colleague is the same sex as her, or suspects that he isnt, but is afraid to mention it though?] and one in eight have been physically attacked by a colleague or customer.” [physically attacked. That is a strong statement. Receipts please stonewall].

All a bit fishy again.

All y'all are forgetting the literal violence of misgendering. Those attacks are massively under-reported, I am sure.

rolls eyes

No. UK.

UK women physically attacking transwomen.

Not abroad. Here. The UK.

Since this is a huge problem there must be loads of reports?

J

Deflecting

But remember when we discuss this issue we are reflecting from the real threat from men. You know the men who say " Women are as violent as men" " No sometimes means yes" "Why should women need separate spaces from men"
Oh hold on a second.

Bittermints no, it's just a smoke bomb of links to slow readers down. Like the long post full of inaccuracies.
When there's two or three posters like that on a thread it's hard to stop the derailment.

FeministCat
I don't think it's would be legally enforceable anyway. You can't choose who gets your organs. The only option is to deselect uterus.

Women attacking transwoman:
www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/north-carolina-trans-sexual-assault-raleigh-bathroom-bill-women-charged-a8718796.html

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/university-dropout-jesse-mcdonald-killed-trans-woman-after-sex-and-drug-binge-kwfskrkcl

Other
www.rt.com/uk/416727-sex-change-attacks-trans/

www.transadvocate.com/arsonist-terf-thinks-trans-women-are-immoral-should-be-beaten_n_21510.htm

www.stuff.co.nz/national/97064735/trans-woman-granted-nz-residency-to-protect-her-from-hate-crime-in-the-uk

www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/transgender-woman-vows-defy-bigots-13841676

One from North Carolina.

One report from the UK of a man who killed a trans woman. His girlfriend was convicted of helping him try to cover it up.

Two reports of trans people in the UK reporting high levels of attacks, but this appears to include verbal abuse and public discussion of trans ideology and the possible impact on women's rights and other matters of general importance to society, not all physical attacks. This is self-report and it's from Stonewall, which is not a neutral source.

One report about Linda Bellos, a pensioner, who was asked about the case of Maria McLachlan, another pensioner, assaulted at Hyde Park Corner by a transactivist. Linda said, as many other women would have said, that if anyone attempted to attack her she would try to defend herself. The CPS were asked to investigate this heinous threat to public order and found no reason to prosecute. A transactivist tried to bring a public prosecution against Linda and it was thrown out.

One report of a drunk man shouting at a trans woman and then hitting her.

It's not really an epidemic of women assaulting trans women, is it?