Jeremy Vine talking to transwoman

The AGP bit Datun, where 'Nikki' said, "...everyone tells me I look better as a woman".

Ah ok, thanks.

Flying oink I am called worse than that and blocked by most trans people on their lists. Many transsexuals who post openly are.

Says a lot about whether they seek dialogue or unquestioning acceptance of what they think if they prefer to stick fingers in their ears and go 'la la la' rather than have a conversation that conceivably might disagree with nonsense phrases like 'transwomen are women' .

I've just had a listen.

TBH, it was lunchtime on Radio 2; I'm not sure it would have been appropriate for Jeremy to have been more challenging with his questioning.

I bet Ann's wife and daughter are spitting feathers if they listened to it though; why not get them on too, Jeremy, and let them tell their side of the story, instead of labelling them as unsupportive in their absence? It's the lack of balance in these discussions that is so frustrating. Yes, the Anns of the world can live how they want - as long as they keep the hell out of female-only spaces.

All this being 'born a girl' business seems to involve a penchant for liking "girls' clothes" and "girls' toys"

So what does that say about girls like me who screamed when my mother tried to make me wear dresses; who took the head off my Tiny Tears doll to see how it cried rather than playing 'mummies' with it?

Was I not 'born a girl'?

How anyone can not see that this is about prescriptive and restrictive gender stereotyping is beyond me. If a boy wants to grow his hair and paint his nails (like my own son did) then fucking let him! But it doesn't make him a girl!

I didn't hear it but re PP

"I think Ann might have meant that in the 80s the police were locking up transvestites for offences against public decency"

The 80s did have an aggressive police policy of entrapment & gay men.

If this person was referring to that it's just more co-opting. This person was married to a woman? The actions by the police around "cottaging" are entirely unrelated and it's just more co-opting.

The idea that men in the 80s would have been sectioned for presenting as women is bonkers given the fashion was for men to wear loads of makeup and look as pretty as possible.

There was also a very famous model who was trans, back in the 70s I think she advertised vodka...Caroline Coffey?

Caroline Cossey (aka 'Tula'). Wiki (may not be reliable) says: "Cossey was born in Brooke, Norfolk. Through puberty, Cossey was distinctly feminine in appearance due to a variant of Klinefelter's syndrome, where, instead of having the XX female chromosome pattern, she possesses the genotype XXXY[1][3] (people with Klinefelter's syndrome usually have XXY)."

One of Jeremy's producers tweeted about six months ago, slating GC women and praising TW, so there was already bias.

lassupthebrew you'd be called a transphobe for your opinions nowadays

I was going to say about the makeup, long hair, gender-bender, androgynous look was all over the 80s and nobody was locked up. I was being a man then what with being in the Army and riding a motorbike, drinking pints of real ale and playing bass guitar. Talk about gender non conforming! Nobody ever thought of me as anything other than a woman though... funny that

Well, quite.

As a porkie, it's right up there with "If Stephen Hawking was British he'd never have lived..."

I had a sheltered / religious childhood in the 70s/80s. People were well aware of transvestites, transsexuals, "sex change". It wasn't a big deal. Nobody was getting locked up

Mind you, nobody tried to say their penis was a female organ.

The bit about AGP, or the bit about asking questions?

The AGP bit Datun, where 'Nikki' said, "...everyone tells me I look better as a woman".

Did they littlbrowndog? Which bit? The bit about AGP, or the bit about asking questions?

I've now listened to the interview and phone in - that's half an hour of my life I won't get back. I think Ann might have meant that in the 80s the police were locking up transvestites for offences against public decency. That seems like baloney to me too, but marginally less than when I thought the reference was to being sectioned.

Hamster said that datun in the other thread

So a late transitioning man who has been married, but left his wife and family and insists he's always been a 'girl'. That has all the characteristics of AGP, or transvestism.

I wish JV, or any of these radio shows, would just ask some basic questions.

Why did you think you were a girl?

What do you mean by living as a woman?

Most transsexuals in the 70s/80s/90s just got on with their lives and never made a big deal out of it. Something sadly quite unlike todays transgender generation who never seem to shut up about it.

I'm sure Marylin, Pete Burns and Boy George were all locked up in the 80s.

I have got that right, haven't I?

There was also a very famous model who was trans, back in the 70s I think she advertised vodka...Caroline Coffey?

I do not post much here lately, but do still read.

I can confirm you would not be locked up in the 1980s. I was a decade post GRS by then and so were at least 300 others via the clinic I attended. So the NHS protocol was quite well established. It was not walk in and say 'I am a lady so take these pills and go - but it was proportionate and fair.

I first saw a doctor in the 60s. True nobody understood then or had defined a protocol (the only UK clinic was created in the late 60s and remained the only one for many years). But that was the right thing to do when you were a child. Today's speedway to transition and hope they are doing the right thing is dangerously reckless by comparison with the supposedly bad old days.

Also true (in the 70s at least - not sure by the 80s) you did have a few weeks as an in patient in a psychiatric unit so they could thoroughly assess you. Before forwarded to the only clinic let alone given medication.

But you were not locked up and free to leave any time. Those who really had what they now call dysphoria stayed because they wanted help to find a way out of a crippling condition.

Those who did not really need that help walked and were deterred - and I suspect rightly. That was the majority from what I saw.

In my view this process where proof of medical need and willingness to do whatever it took to be assessed and helped was far superior to the do as they say or its a crime approach we have now.

So even if the 80s was more like the 70s than now if you were actually transsexual you would have done what it took. And if you thought it was too imposing or hard then you were almost certainly not transsexual in the first place - just one of the many varieties of transgender people that seem to be emerging today now what was once good practice is ridiculously seen as repressive transphobia.

Men wore makeup and had long hair in the 1980s. These trans people know that. Rewriting history may work with the young, gaslighting people old enough to remember just peaks even more people.

JV comes across as a simmering idiot. What a waste of time that was.