Posie, please stop

I’m not on FB so I have no idea what was said but I am tired of the constant critique of Posie. She is very brave and strong but it still not fair for her every move to be debated from within the same group of people who are supposedly advocating for the same thing on this issue. Kristina is a transsexual right? That makes me more mad. Stop telling women how to do feminism, for the love of oats ( I’m atheist and I love oats )

I'll echo what Lang said, what with this being an echo chamber and all.

Women, centred. Simple as. I'll listen to anyone and accept or reject what they have to say on it's own merits.

But I will not prioritize male feelings or opinions about women's rights. Ever.

Not a chance, not ever. Our voice and our truth are the most precious armoury we have.

Absolutely. The truth is sharper, bigger, stronger and more justified than anything the oppressors and their enablers have to hand.

It's what I love about Pat Craven and The Freedom Programme. No funders, no board, no kowtowing, no bullshit.

TS people should not be inserting themselves into intra-feminist disputes. It's not a good look, whatever the position taken.

This.

*The great thing about courageous, outspoken individuals who fearlessly speak and act in their own capacity, is that they don't have to run everything past a damned committee or carefully toe party lines before expressing themselves. Go them.

The downside for people who busy themselves with trying to control and police others is that the brave will not be controlled and policed.

Look at the state of every party and institution which has an 'official line' - they have all been infiltrated and are being controlled from within and all the right thinking, sane people within them are terrified of being ousted or losing their jobs if they speak up.

Look at the state of the Labour party for example?

Posie is allowed to express her opinions and concerns on her own fucking Facebook page*

I agree with your entire post here WeRiseUp

I have campaigned as a lone voice in a health area, refused to take funding by pharma linked groups and, ergo, had total freedom to call it as I saw it. I also spoke up about other non-health issues that concerned me from time to time, not directly linked but indicative of an overall pattern that dissent was being shut down - no platforming in Universities and such like. If readers and followers disagreed, so be it. It was my campaign and my opinion and I wasn't looking for slavish adherence or agreement. But my god was presence resented, by medics, pharma and patients who felt I didn't tow their particular party line. I was offered money to come into the fold. Not a chance, not ever. Our voice and our truth are the most precious armoury we have.

That's not what I meant LangCleg. I meant that criticism of specific actions is being conflated with trying to 'kick someone out of feminism'. It's polarised this particular discussion into 'all for Posie' and 'Posie is the devil'. Campaigns benefit from high profile 'faces' but with that always comes the risk of personality cults building up around them and no criticism is allowed. At all.

I'll be clear.

So far, I have managed to successfully stick to a no woman under the bus position. But every single time somebody posts some vague, snide allusion to things that have nothing to do with women's liberation in order to further tribal splits, I'm nudged one step further away from not taking sides. Every time someone tries to tell me I should prioritise a male voice over a female one, I'm nudged another step further away.

Once nudged, I don't move back. Beware of what you wish for. You just might get it.

I really don't think there is a cult of personality around posie, but I think TRAs are desperately trying to create one.

I have seen over and over again comments such as 'you don't have to agree with everything she says' or 'you dont have to like her', etc, etc, - she is presented as a bit of a 'marmite' person in my experience. I see her as a defiant and brave woman and I like it. I dont expect to have entirely overlapping concerns with her - since I don't with any other human on the planet.

She gets way too much stick. It is unreasonable and seems pretty targeted to me.

I will still support anyone who’s brave enough to speak up in public about this but I don’t recall electing any leaders.

And if the talkers and intellectuals are suddenly finding that they’re getting a more receptive hearing, they would do well to bear in mind that it might not be solely down to their own efforts.

And ‘leading the charge’ sounds to me like a stereotypically male turn of phrase. Kristina might wish to reflect on that.

That's not what I meant LangCleg. I meant that criticism of specific actions is being conflated with trying to 'kick someone out of feminism'. It's polarised this particular discussion into 'all for Posie' and 'Posie is the devil'. Campaigns benefit from high profile 'faces' but with that always comes the risk of personality cults building up around them and no criticism is allowed. At all.

The great thing about courageous, outspoken individuals who fearlessly speak and act in their own capacity, is that they don't have to run everything past a damned committee or carefully toe party lines before expressing themselves. Go them.

The downside for people who busy themselves with trying to control and police others is that the brave will not be controlled and policed.

Look at the state of every party and institution which has an 'official line' - they have all been infiltrated and are being controlled from within and all the right thinking, sane people within them are terrified of being ousted or losing their jobs if they speak up.

Look at the state of the Labour party for example?

Posie is allowed to express her opinions and concerns on her own fucking Facebook page.

WTAF has that got to do with anything? There are women here who have serious concerns about my bloody breakfast of choice, FFS. They don't try to kick me out of feminism for it nor do they cheerlead non-women doing the same thing.

JFC.

There are people who have serious concerns about PP using her Facebook profile to post conspiracy theories on for example Syria and the yellow vests which have nothing to do with 'adult human female'. But maybe women should just learn to shut up.

I haven't read the KH comment, but I support Posie, Venice and Julia.

Anyone who is trying to split this movement, create in-fighting and ill-feeling is not an ally.

TS people should not be inserting themselves into intra-feminist disputes. It's not a good look, whatever the position taken.

Did it not occur to Kristina that this intervention provided a QED for the opposing viewpoint? What a ruddy great own goal. Some self reflection urgently required, methinks.

I am deeply unimpressed even from here in Switzerland.

The comment that springs to my mind is ODFOD.

How dare this male person try to draw a dividing line through our movement.

I’m here to protect my child and expose the fantasy. A woman is an adult human female. Full stop. I want reality to prevail.

Got you. My DC are in their mid 20s now. They have been fed this stuff at uni. I know several of their peers who are suffering MH problems. It is not a good time for them, work and careerwise. They have real life problems and priorities to contend with but yet they believe this guff. It is always the vulnerable that are preyed on. Posie cuts through this, no whataboutery, and a lot of people connect.

Posie's campaign is great. Adult human female cuts right to the heart of the issue.

There is a place for serious intellectual discussions over the meaning of feminism- 2nd wave/3rd wave/ intersectional whatever. But frankly most people's eyes glaze over and they stop listening.

The things that have engaged most people in "real life" have been ManFriday, Posie, the Girl Guiding debate, the leafleting around the GRC and more recently the ReSisters campaign.

So, stick to what works. Oh, and don't engage in pointless twitter spats, they don't do any good.

I've seen Kristina in real life, and heard Kristina speaking. I'd get banned if I said what I wanted to say.

I stand with Julia, Venice and Posie.

*Pumyin
As an American woman who has been increasingly horrified by the TRA movement, but has felt powerless and silenced, your sister provided inspiration and hope for me. She is courageous and truly a champion for women and children.

As a result of her actions, I have started to find ways to speak out and connect. She is making a tremendous difference, and we WE NEED HER. Please let her know how much she is appreciated!*
Seconded!

I think I'm not going to comment on Kristina's piece.

I'd probably get banned from MN.