Posie, please stop

The escalating nastiness was always inevitable. It means that our voices are starting to be heard, and that our arguments are having an impact.

Bullying is the last resort of someone who does not have logical case.

And really interesting how much is focussed on the women who have been brave enough to raise their heads above the parapet. James Kirkuk appears to have received nothing like the levels of abuse that Janice Turner did, despite reporting on any of the same issues.Go figure.

And Posie, if you are reading. Think of the children and their terrified families. Don’t beat yourself up. Carry on doing what you are doing. It’s mad. We need your version of sanity.

To return briefly to the "getting into bed with the right wing" argument...

In my home town, we have a large grooming gang who prey on vulnerable teenage girls. This has been going on for about 20 years and is still happening.

The town is a Labour stronghold and has been for the past twenty years. Whenever this issue is raised, people are called "racist", "fascist", and so forth. People have been removed from council meetings for not saying the right thing on this issue.

The parents got desperate, so they turned to the only party that would listen and debate this issue: UKIP. Now, of course, the parents look racist, which they aren't.

At the last few elections, UKIP have got bigger and bigger. Labour are still in power, but they know that UKIP is a threat.

The thing is, Labour could easily get most of these voters back if they simply responded to grooming gangs more logically and fairly. I think they will get tougher on this issue before the next election as a result.

My point is: getting into bed with the right wing was what caused the left wing to wake up.

Thank you for saying this

I've been shocked and disgusted by how destructive and jealous so many people have been about Posie.

I don't agree with everything she says. But she has the right to say it and I agree even less, with people saying she believes certain things which are their own projections. Lunatics claiming she's a white nationalist and a nazi and all sorts of other overwrought rubbish.

It makes us look as delusional and mad as transactivists. I wish women would stop this.

Thank you Posie for all you've done. And Venice, who is being subjected to almost as much crap. What you 2 and Julia did in the States was brilliant.

Kristina has posted the statement made on Facebook on twitter for anyone interested (it’s not locked or private)

mobile.twitter.com/KJ_Harrison/status/1095721572860657665

Trying to remain Switzerland so I’ll just say I stand with the breakfast that should not be named.

Sheila Jeffreys, Gallus Mag (Gender Trender), Cathy Brennan....

Pretty much what CharlieParley said actually. I was typing while she was.

What’s with all the stuff on Twitter about how you have to be “of the left” to be a proper feminist? I’m not talking about the question of Posie and co being hosted by the Heritage Foundation in the US. I mean the chatter afterwards. Why can’t we coalesce around women’s rights without it meaning we all agree on the best economic model or the right policies on other things? Even if historically the rad fem movement came out of trade unions (if it did) that doesn’t mean you can’t be a true feminist unless you’re a socialist. I mean, that’s like saying feminism has to look after everyone....and that’s not the point at all!

ActualWoman There are people who have serious concerns about PP using her Facebook profile to post conspiracy theories on for example Syria and the yellow vests which have nothing to do with 'adult human female'. But maybe women should just learn to shut up.

Now isn't that surreal. The "conspiracy theories" about Syria are those of the anti-imperialist, anti-militarist far left. So, I'm meant to condemn Posie at one and the same time for suspected right wing sympathies and for suspected left wing sympathies?

Is this woman not allowed to be a normal person with sometimes complicated, maybe even conflicting views about our world and all those who live within it? And am I to be forced to disown someone who agrees with me on my main focus but maybe holds different views on something else? Do you not see how nuts that is?

When the remain campaign held an event in Scotland, featuring prominent unionist and independence campaigners, there was a lot of extremely hostile criticism for a female independence campaigner about associating with the former (and weirdly enough only for her).

And that was as idiotic as all of these tantrums about the "movement" needing to disown Posie.

Piss off!

Like it or not, the women's rights movement has always and will always include right wing, left wing, centrist and apolitical women in various combinations depending on whichever women's rights issue is at stake. And this is an issue that concerns women from all kinds of social, educational and political backgrounds.

If I feel like it, I will protest against Brexit alongside unionists and TRAs and then I'll campaign alongside a Brexiter against either of those when it comes to independence and women's rights. That is how the world of politics works for men. And I'm bloody well claiming the same right for women.

I haven't posted on this as I don't do FB and so have missed a lot of what's happened over the past couple of weeks. The US seems to be in a worse state than us at the moment - feminists there have been so successfully no-platformed that they've had no choice but to turn to the right, hence the Heritage Foundation and Fox News. Perhaps if the so-called progressives took their boots off women's necks then they'd see that. Or at least that's the way it seems to me as an outside observer.

You don't have to agree with everything someone else believes to work together for a common goal. DM and I are at opposite ends of the spectrum politically, but together we leafletted our town with FPFW leaflets.

Like Lang and Floral I am trying to stay Switzerland. The phrase divide and conquer exists for a reason: it would be nice if the personal attacks could end.

Any woman speaking out publicly about this issue does so at great personal cost and I salute her.

(I also salute Lang for her commitment to her chosen breakfast: I may be the only other MNer who actually thinks it's nice)

Personally I find Posie a bit attention seeking

that's the point isn't it?

Personally I find Posie a bit attention seeking and can’t see what useful purpose the original posting has, other than feeding into that and distracting from the bigger picture.

I'm not on SM and I've barely been following what's been happening over the last week but Floral summed it up for me

Women, centred. Simple as. I'll listen to anyone and accept or reject what they have to say on it's own merits.
But I will not prioritize male feelings or opinions about women's rights. Ever.
We aren't allowed much that solely for us, soon to be even less, but we can decide for ourselves what harms us and what protects us without the input of men.

And the more people who put their selfish desires above the needs of young girls smear Posie, the less I think of them and the more likely I am to support Posie, Venice and Julia however I can.

Here here. Fully agree

I tend to run through the following thought process when considering whether to give any respect or mental head-space to whatever transsexuals like Kristina say: do they put their desire to be in womens' spaces above the need of my 8 yr old DD to safety, privacy and dignity. And to clarify I don't just mean physical safety but mental safety too i.e. feeling safe, feeling she has bodily autonomy, feeling like she has a right to set boundaries which she won't if in with a male body.

Miranda definitely would put my DD first I think. Kristina and Debbie, not.

So, I don't listen to a single thing they say. And will teach my daughters the same.

And I'm certain that protecting young girls is a large part of Posie's motivation for doing what she does and putting herself and her kids at risk. Thank you again Posie, Venice and Julia.

And the more people who put their selfish desires above the needs of young girls smear Posie, the less I think of them and the more likely I am to support Posie, Venice and Julia however I can.