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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

How British feminism became anti-trans - according to the New York Times

295 replies

NotTerfNorCis · 07/02/2019 14:54

www.nytimes.com/2019/02/07/opinion/terf-trans-women-britain.html

A surprisingly mainstream movement of feminists known as TERFs oppose transgender rights as a symptom of “female erasure.”

Beginning to suspect the writer has a bias...

There, the most vocal trans-exclusionary voices are, ostensibly, “feminist” ones, and anti-trans lobbying is a mainstream activity. Case in point: Ms. Parker told the podcast “Feminist Current” that she’d changed her thinking on trans women after spending time on Mumsnet, a site where parents exchange tips on toilet training and how to get their children to eat vegetables. If such a place sounds benign, consider the words of British writer Edie Miller: “Mumsnet is to British transphobia,” she wrote “what 4Chan is to American fascism.”

The term coined to identify women like Ms. Parker and Ms. Long is TERF, which stands for Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminist. In Britain, TERFs are a powerful force. If, in the United States, the mainstream media has been alarmingly ready to hear “both sides” on the question of trans people’s right to exist, in Britain, TERFs have effectively succeeded in framing the question of trans rights entirely around their own concerns: that is, how these rights for others could contribute to “female erasure.”

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merrymouse · 08/02/2019 21:05

I did wonder whether she'd actually read anything on here, because I assumed she'd be better informed if she had.

Too scary I imagine.

Might have face up to the horrifying reality of biological sex.

littlbrowndog · 08/02/2019 21:04

Och no floral. They just idiots. Being educated doesn’t mean you can’t be an idiot

FloralBunting · 08/02/2019 21:01

that would be assuming that she had written her article from a position of ignorance, rather than simply lying.

It's always a bit depressing to me to realize, as I do more and more frequently, how willing people are to lie, especially women who absolutely must have come across the truth. I'm still quite naive in that part of me believes that once someone honestly examines the situation, they will see what our points are and how we are not at all bigoted or unreasonable, and every single day that is being knocked out of me by people who must have addressed these things and are willing to bare faced lie to shore up their own position in the cult of Genderism.

nettie434 · 08/02/2019 20:51

Pleased to see Amanda Foreman calling it out too:
Every aspect of this one-sided opinion piece is a slur against British feminists
twitter.com/dramandaforeman/status/1093533382343094274?s=21
Odin the Wolf also asks if Sophie wants some cheese to go with her "I cant handle the truth" whine. I think I might adopt that phrase! Wine. Sobs slightly at lack of cheese emoji.

OldCrone · 08/02/2019 20:47

I did wonder whether she'd actually read anything on here, because I assumed she'd be better informed if she had. But that would be assuming that she had written her article from a position of ignorance, rather than simply lying.

Bowlofbabelfish · 08/02/2019 20:44

Tl:dr.

POMO bollocks.

Bowlofbabelfish · 08/02/2019 20:43

But when I say "indigenous" in my piece, I mean the colonised people from places Britain colonised (colonises).

That’s not quite what the article said though was it?

Anthropological validation of a single group even being Celts aside (wink wink) , I do wonder of Sophie is aware of the ‘forriner’ content of Roman city/large town cemeteries? Almost twenty percent not from these sceptered isles. Many of whom would have stood a chance of adding to the gene pool.
But I’m sure she knows that, and can define precisely the genetic makeup of an ‘indigenous’ Brit. We are, and probably always have been, mongels.

It is cult like waffle, and I’ll repeat what I’ve said on here before (and what others in various professions have.) Which is that jargon should be a tool to express clearly what you mean. It should be accurate AND precise. You should also be able to explain your work clearly, and simply, for any audience. From schoolkids, to students, to the woman on the Clapham omnibus to experts in your field.

If you can’t, the suspicion lingers that you’re either not understanding it yourself, or you’re deliberately muddying the waters.

FloralBunting · 08/02/2019 20:42

Of course she lurks. She's the type who retweets all the fawning adulation for her bag of crap propaganda piece, she's so going to be the type to vanity search.

Plus, you know, powerful radicalization portal. She'll get a wee trill up her spine just scrolling through among the dangerous women.

OldCrone · 08/02/2019 20:39

Oh, OK. Hello Soph. Hang around, you might learn something. You certainly need to.

CaptainKirksSpookyghost · 08/02/2019 20:36

She Probably lurks or posts, it's an extremely mainstream site after all.

OldCrone · 08/02/2019 20:33

Is Sophie lurking on here? She tweeted this earlier

1/ please do keep your great jokes about Picts & Celts coming. But when I say "indigenous" in my piece, I mean the colonised people from places Britain colonised (colonises).

twitter.com/reproutopia/status/1093929843685814272

HawkeyeInConfusion · 08/02/2019 20:28

I start reading Sophie's words, but my eyes glaze over and brain shuts down before the end of the first sentence.

I'm in awe of those of you actually trying to understand and analyse what she's saying.

FloralBunting · 08/02/2019 20:08

nauticant has it. The reason we feel like we've read it before is because it's just combination of random slogans and jargon that has been repeated ad infinitum.

That's how cults use language - it designates who is in and who is out based on their acceptance of the cult jargon. If you don't understand the deliberately impenetrable waffle, and you say it doesn't make sense, you have signalled that you are outside the group.
If you don't understand it and keep quiet, you can be part of the group by virtue of not rocking the boat, often due to the fear of being put out of the group, a powerful tactic used on a number of high-profile questioners in recent times.

Of course, the way to ensure you are not a target is to vocally support the jargon. You don't have to be especially erudite, you just have to intone "Trans women are women" and you will deflect the Eye of Sauron.

nauticant · 08/02/2019 19:50

It's not meant to be understood. The more incomprehensible the better. So long as it dazzles the unthinking while giving them a sense of a progressive message. They can then approve of the article and feel intelligent. This might not understand what it's actually on about but their feelings are right so they were intelligent enough to understand at some level.

It has things in common with propaganda speeches of the past hundred years or so. If you read them rather than listen to them they usually make little sense. But man, the feels for the receptive audience!

WeRiseUp · 08/02/2019 18:38

I think there is truth about it being like free-form jazz or beat poetry. There seems to be a school of thought that weaving words around, sprinkling images and pleasingly mashing ideas together contains a version of 'truth' that is in some way comparible to logic, evidence, deduction, testing, rigour and reasoning.

Can't people see this belongs in the arts and not in science? It's embarrassing.

WeRiseUp · 08/02/2019 18:30
Grin
BettyDuMonde · 08/02/2019 18:15

Another good take-down of Sophie the Twit’s NYT piece, this one by Madeleine Kearns:

www.freezepage.com/1549590951FBIVWCYBES

Bowlofbabelfish · 08/02/2019 16:56

It’s like Private Eye’s ‘pseuds corner’ has expanded into reality.

Ereshkigal · 08/02/2019 16:54

If working in a call centre and fucking are completely interchangeable, how come no one does a shift at British Gas for fun?

PMSL here

Ereshkigal · 08/02/2019 16:52

It's an art form really. Like free form jazz. A bit wanky.

This!

All her writing sounds like something which would be submitted to Real Peer Review for a puerile laugh like the ones about "trans-hippos" etc.

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 08/02/2019 16:43

'How was your weekend Ella?'

'Fan-bloody-tastic. The Vodafone call centre at Newbury were letting people go on the phones. It was a bit of a trek from Manchester, but so worth it'

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 08/02/2019 16:41

If working in a call centre and fucking are completely interchangeable, how come no one does a shift at British Gas for fun?

is it possible that the two activities are not completely analogous Sophie?

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 08/02/2019 16:39

a man (here defined, problematically, as someone with a dick)

Grin Grin Grin

DisrespectfulAdultFemale · 08/02/2019 16:39

Good grief. What a load of crap Lewis's work is.

FloralBunting · 08/02/2019 16:34

If she hadn't had an opinion piece in the NYT, I really would have trouble believing she actually existed outside parody.

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