Jazz Jennings - 'My vagina looked SO bad that my mom, sister, and the surgeons wouldn't even let me look at it'

Like that sex education site where meg-john thingy said that clitorises and penises are "basically the same"

They are only basically the same if you ignore pretty much everything about them as they are completely different! Clitoris is only organ in male or female body which has no discernable function other than pleasure :D

After that awesome opener meg-john continued rather bafflingly that "most people lie somewhere in the middle" :D

Durex sponsor the content - they will be surprised ot discover the clitorises and penises are basically the same and most people have one that is about 3 inches long (irrespective of their sex).

Suck fuckwittery how do they write it with a straight face???

Did anyone else realise that the Hippocratic Oath was updated and amended in 2017. I wasn't actually aware of that. There are some significant differences that I think give some leeway to these experimental types of surgeries under the premise of gender affirmation.

www.bioedge.org/mobile/view/new-hippocratic-oath-for-doctors-approved/12496

The statements by the surgeons are incredible.

Even now we have these amazing pictures of the clitoris - which took so long to be made (wonder why! not really lol) - men including surgeons still focus on the visible outer part of it which is a tiny part of it.

The ignoring of the massive internal structures in favour of looking at the sticky outy bit and saying oh look it's tiny! A bit of penis skin should do the job just as well and probably even better because of awesome male penis power is just rampant male as default writ so large it's visible from space.

No it's not explained at all. Possibly because it's complete bullshit. It makes me angry too.

Precisely Datun, anybody body who says a grafted penis tip, mature or otherwise, can provoke anything akin to a female orgasm is either mistaken (due to having no idea what a female orgasm feels like because they're a man), or lying.

I'm going hot and cold with rage over this.

This kid has never had a fucking orgasm. Never had an erection. How on earth is cutting bits off and re-locating them, with all the attendant scar tissue, going to actually improve their chances?

I can't watch the program tinsel. Is this explained, at all?

And as for this:

Apparently there was a higher percentage of orgasm than in a natural clitoris.

This is just autogynaphilia writ large.

Kismetjayn thank you for sharing your experience as I didn't know. I agree with you about the lack of brain development and maturity. I also think that in Jazz's case it is exploitation of a vulnerable child. Some things should stay private and there doesn't seem to be any privacy left for her. It makes me think of a modern day freak show, because that is how some people view her. Also how much money do the family make from the tv programme? If she wasn't trans then there would be no show.

Precisely Datun, anybody body who says a grafted penis tip, mature or otherwise, can provoke anything akin to a female orgasm is either mistaken (due to having no idea what a female orgasm feels like because they're a man), or lying.

Thinking how puberty blockers affect the brain has completely changed my stance on all of this.

Yes, indeed. Where are the studies? Where is the evidence?

Kismetjayn

I'm just watching the programme now, and whilst doing the surgery, the surgeons said they were using the tip of the penis to create a clitoris, and because of the nerve endings, this means there can be orgasms.

These are male surgeons, who've never had a female orgasm. How the hell do they know?

And yes, the tip of a prepubescent penis is, in terms of surface area, tiny. A clitoris isn't. And there are double the number of nerve endings on a clitoris, than on a penis, and I think that's a fully grown penis.

This all feels so much like let's cross our fingers and hope, with so much spin, it's difficult to believe.

@FlyingOink I'm doing much better :)

It's just the kind of thing no one ever talks about, but children should be
free to reach the emotional maturity levels needed to manage this kind of stuff before it happens. Thinking how puberty blockers affect the brain has completely changed my stance on all of this.

Kismetjayn sorry that happened to you

Also @MiceSqueak (and I'm not saying it is okay, not at all) children can experience orgasm pre-puberty. I did when I was abused and it was a huge source of shame because I thought you weren't supposed to be able to and that's why I was abused.

The issue is that your mind isn't ready for it at all which is why the lack of brain development disturbs me so much now I know it's a thing.

Pp, I think there are more than 2 sexes but they're genetic abnormalities and not as common (after all hermaphrodites have always existed). A good friend of mine is struggling because of all the anti-trans, anti-nonbinary at the moment because she was raised a boy, and since transitioned. But actually was born with both sets of sex organs, though neither developed properly. She was registered as a boy because a penis is kind of easier to point out. Then suffered through puberty with developing breasts.

But I never realised that about the puberty the brain goes through. I used to err on the side of blockers so a child would have more time to think about the decision (rather than being rushed into transitioning) but if the blockers prevent their brains from maturing how are they ever going to give informed consent to anything?

I don't agree a lack of sexual pleasure means sex with them is wrong, I've struggled with sexual pleasure due to trauma but wouldn't want to be stopped from doing it, when I give it willingly to a partner (obviously would discount coercion). But this would mean due to their child brain they couldn't consent, pleasure or none.

That's horrific!

I think perhaps therapy to help children cope with puberty would be better? As in, 'regardless of what you choose to do as an adult, you need to let your mind fully develop to be able to make that choice'. And puberty is tough so if counselling was available more girls especially would manage it better and perhaps there'd be lowered rates of de-transitioning.

Fwiw DD has never wanted to be a boy even for pretend but I'd probably reply to it with 'i love you whoever you are' just as I do when she's Everest from paw patrol or Starla from Blaze and the monster machines. No need for any kind of indoctrination.

I don't see how the tip of a penis can make an orgasm. What precisely would be orgasming? It's not attached to any of the stuff a woman has all the feelings in.

If you stroke the tip of my finger, I don't have an orgasm.

I find the term ‘neo vagina’ quite creepy

I'm embarrassed that I couldn't tell. It was just so graphic my brain rejected it!! I didn't realise it went all the way round.

That's a whole clitoris, Mice. It extends round the sides of the vaginal opening. It isn't just the teeny bit at the top.

The clitoris!

TinselAngel, what is that picture? 😳

As a clitoris owner familiar with the sensations it can provoke, I just don't see how the grafted tip of a penis can mimic the feelings provided by this organ, which is not just a bobble of skin.

I saw a programme about male to female 'bottom' surgery and the surgeon said that the head of the penis is made into a clitoris. Apparently there was a higher percentage of orgasm than in a natural clitoris. I don't know if this statistic is still true. But this was in male bodies that had been through puberty. I don't know if a child's penis would be like an adult penis in that way. I have always thought that the ability to orgasm came with sexual maturity through puberty. The whole thing makes me feel uncomfortable as this discussion of a child (until recently) feels really like a paedophilia.

Yes sorry I meant in penile inversion surgery they do keep the tip as a neoclitoris, but in a sexually mature male there's likely to be more chance of orgasm, or even pleasurable feelings, than for a male with a child penis, surely?
I don't have a penis so I can't be sure