Can transsexuals truly be allies to women?

Sheila Jeffreys identifies transgenderism as part of male sexual rights movement.
'What Is Gender?'

The whole thing has become a numbers game.

I also think expectations have changed. In the past, TS would never put themselves in a position where they would be 'outed', so would probably risk the toilets in a department store, but not an open plan changing room or in a sports team.

To a certain extent, TS have benefited from the work TRA have done, and used this to expect to be in women's spaces they wouldn't have been previously.

It must create a fuckload of cognitive dissonance to be a so-called gender critical transsexual.

Yes. I don't understand how it's possible to be GC and trans.

Placemarking.

(And agreeing with most posts. Once you start to see that it is really just the position of the boot on the collective neck of women, you can't unsee it).

The whole thing has become a numbers game.

Back when there were only a small number of transsexuals and no joined up movement behind them women were free to police boundaries as they saw fit.

For the most part this worked well in that women could embrace or reject based on individualistic behaviour. Accepting one particular transsexual into a women's group or friendship circle did not equal having to accept every single one going forward.

This kept the power of boundaries firmly on the side of women so we were free to build a connection with a Miranda Yardley type but not forced into engagement with a Karen White.

Whilst things were at this small number/individual level I think there was a way to negotiate, live alongside in relative peace and broadly accept most TS women as standing with all women.

Where we are now is no longer a negotiation but an out and out power grab. As soon as a significant number of males form a group it's always going to turn into egregious overreach if the target is something they want from women. The concept of Transgender allowed this to happen and altered the dynamics irreversibly.

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that goodwill can only ever be given and not seized. Trans rights could have progressed in a fairer and more organic fashion had the movement centred TS rather than TG and not immediately positioned women as an enemy to conquer at all costs.

^^This! But I can't stop think wondering about how much IS about self-interest, and at what point does mutual support become potentially one sided and ending up reverting back to male patterns of behaviour.

Hamster That you notice male patterns of behaviour and power/abuse of power speaks volumes of your integrity and understanding of feminist concerns.

Its good to see you back here!

I like the term "friend to" better than ally. So, I'd say Miranda Yardley is a friend to women, and so is Glinner. I may not always agree with them, but I always get the sense that they see women as people and care about what we have to say. There are some purportedly GC transsexuals who I'm less convinced meet either of the above criteria.

Agree 100%

Also Hamster I’m sorry for all the transallyplaining you’re being subjected to on the other thread. It is coming across as a particularly offensive form of ‘mansplaining’ and is giving me the rage.

I agree with Barracker post.

I think some TS have jumped onto self id, assuming that that's the problem and if that's stopped, everything will be ok. But it's not, the problem is women and girls not allowed to define themselves and not being allowed any space to themselves. Male TS are as much of a problem as male TG people if they don't see that.

Interesting thread.

I’m not a massive fan of the term ‘ally’ just find it a bit wanky.

I also think Feminism is for females.

I don’t like all the splits and in fighting. There’s an awful lot of women I’ve listened to over the years (and a few transsexuals) and I’ve learnt a lot. Ultimately I think everybody needs to listen and learn about their rights and then represent their own views to their elected representatives and any services they are using that are undermining rights, especially schools.

Long term I would like to see gender stereotypes broken down to a big enough extent that there are no ‘trans’ people there are just people. I know that will be interpreted as wanting to deny trans people the right to exist, but it isn’t. I would like differences between sexes acknowledged and segregation upheld where necessary, but I don’t want any child growing up thinking they were born in the wrong body because they don’t want to conform to societal gender stereotypes.

I think existing transsexuals need their own movement, but they’re a tiny group, only 1-2% of the whole trans movement. I’m very annoyed that twitter shut down TSvoices.

I think ultimately hamster you are you and should defend your own rights while being careful not to impinge on others.

I will defend mine and my daughters rights while trying hard not to make the lives of anyone with gender dysphoria even more difficult.

I think all decent human beings who care about the rights of others and respecting diverse viewpoints and freedom of speech should stand together.

And Cria is going to be my fact of the day

'Friend to' makes me cringe. Can't really articulate why but I think it sounds baby-ish and silly.

As to whether they can be an ally or not, not if they want to present a parody of women to the world, no.

I think RoseofDawn is great. Her videos about Jess Bradley show insight, persistency and courage. She does not claim to be GC, and I am sure there are many many areas on which we will disagree. However I would listen, and then agree to disagree.

Ally, friend..neither. Just someone who comes across as an honest individual.

And this is why we don't ask me to name things for us as a collective.

See, I'd have just called them "llama", or possibly have expressed my feelings via a ridiculous "aw!" noise.

but I think it goes beyond that - and past the self-ID / single sex issues

Yes, you're probably right there.

What are baby llama called?

The word 'ally' grates on me like fingernails down a blackboard too. 'Friend to' makes far more sense. But then the whole 'everyone must be forcibly stuffed into a named pack/category at all times, and must virtuously believe in all the things that pack label lists (whether or not they actually agree with them)' pisses me right off too. So bloody childish.

Hamster - it's possible but there is a very fine line between actually supporting women and their needs and effectively working towards gate keeping that includes TS but excludes TG, which essentially is a pro-self, not a pro-woman, agenda.

But I think you know that and that's why you've posted. Amirite?

So good to see you posting again. I always like the cut of your jib.

I think 'friend of' is useful, and also reminds us that friends do sometimes disagree, but essentially have enough love and respect to still have a strong and supportive relationship and have each other's backs on the important things.

I like the term "friend to" better than ally. So, I'd say Miranda Yardley is a friend to women, and so is Glinner. I may not always agree with them, but I always get the sense that they see women as people and care about what we have to say. There are some purportedly GC transsexuals who I'm less convinced meet either of the above criteria.

This.

Miranda is the only one I can think of.

Most 'GC' transexuals besides him are using their GC credentials to buy compromises and negotiate away some part of women's consent, and their position is simply 'I'm so much less demanding than the others, so I'd settle for me if I were you'.

Ultimately, if you are a TS arguing that
-surgery/hormones makes you more committed and deserving of being awarded honorary womanhood

• TS are less harmful than 'the others'
• women who don't use female pronouns for you are unkind/not civil/ discourteous
• a female mind exists

then you're really no different from all the other men, sitting around arguing with each other about what women are, who gets to be one, what rights we are entitled, and which men we should and shouldn't be allowed to say no to.

Every GC TS I've spoken to expects me to sacrifice my own and my daughter's rights, boundaries and consent in some way for his
own benefit, usually because they see our rights as theirs to negotiate away, and because they feel I owe them.

It's incomprehensible to them to view the situation thus:

Here are females. I am male. I will not expect or plead for any concessions from them. They have an unassailable right to distinguish themselves from me, and I will not make their lives worse by requiring them to perpetually justify this, or reassert and defend that right repeatedly because of me.