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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Volunteers at women only group

42 replies

CommonFishDiseases · 04/02/2019 13:33

I have a friend working in a paid role in a non profit organisation which runs a women-only group to vulnerable women of a variety of socioeconomic groups including conservative Muslim women.

Recently the group was approached by a transwoman who wanted to volunteer with the group. My friend feels very uncomfortable with this but is not sure what their legal position is... are they allowed to refuse this person to volunteer?

Can anyone signpost me to any organisations that will give an overview of the current legal context or will provide advice to groups in this situation?

Thanks!!

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OlennasWimple · 05/02/2019 17:36

It's quite possible that the group wouldn't meet the needs of the transwoman anyway, given the different issues at play (re the question about them attending, not volunteering)

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 05/02/2019 12:32

Would it make a difference if this person was seeking to attend the group themselves (rather than volunteer)

Nope.

CowJumping · 05/02/2019 11:59

Again, as far as I understand the 2010 Equalities Act, it would be lawful to exclude non-biological women - even those with a GRC - for an organisation to achieve its stated aims with a group protected under the EA (ie women).

CommonFishDiseases · 05/02/2019 11:18

Would it make a difference if this person was seeking to attend the group themselves (rather than volunteer)?

BTW this is not a group specifically dealing with sexual abuse although vulnerable women are present.

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GahWhatever · 05/02/2019 11:14

Are there any volunteer roles within the organisation which do not involve direct contact with the clients? So this potential volunteer could still fulfil their wish to help the organisation without potentially alienating/upsetting/preventing the participation of the target clients?

CowJumping · 05/02/2019 10:53

Or if this TW has been abused herself, could she not set up her own charity for helping abused transwomen? Actually do something about al the literal violence?

this may be a sarcastic use of the word literal

Mutakirorikatum · 05/02/2019 09:49

I would advise against offering them an alternative volunteer position, because if they take it, they'll get to know the inner workings of the organisation, they'll apply again for the volunteer position they actually want, and it will be much harder to come up with a convincing reason to turn them down the next time.

If they're the type who wants this as a validation opportunity, the best thing to do is to not get involved with them in any way.

You are of course right, I was being somewhat sarcastic. But really, FFS. If you want to help abused women go and run a marathon and raise £££ in sponsorship or something. Anything more direct just smacks of weird voyeurism and using women's oppression for your own validation.

TimeLady · 05/02/2019 09:24

There are loads of opportunities for volunteers in all sorts of areas where one's gender or sex is not an issue. A male seeking one in a female-only environment should be a massive red flag to everyone. It's either narcissism or shit-stirring and both are best avoided.

Maybe your friend could suggest that as, sadly, there are currently no opportunities at her organisation, they offer their services to the local charity shop, who she understands are desperate for help Wink.

HomeStar · 05/02/2019 09:09

I would advise against offering them an alternative volunteer position, because if they take it, they'll get to know the inner workings of the organisation, they'll apply again for the volunteer position they actually want, and it will be much harder to come up with a convincing reason to turn them down the next time.

If they're the type who wants this as a validation opportunity, the best thing to do is to not get involved with them in any way.

CommonFishDiseases · 05/02/2019 08:52

Thank you so much for taking the time to reply everyone. I will pass the info on.

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Mutakirorikatum · 04/02/2019 23:24

Tell them that you are thrilled they’ve applied because what you really need help with is an incredibly dull data entry task which can be done on a working from home basis. And here are two massive lever arch files of fundraising data that needs to be entered into excel for starters.

That should be a good test of this person's motivation...

Angryresister · 04/02/2019 22:57

Tell them that when the organisation wants to set up a group for transwomen, they will be at the top of your list

OlennasWimple · 04/02/2019 22:46

To avoid accusations of blanket discrimination, I'd suggest that your friend consider whether there is any role that the potential volunteer could perform that would not be a problem (social media manager? Fundraiser? Admin type stuff?). If not, they need to document why the volunteer role is not open to men or transwomen in their policy documents (it shouldn't be about this specific person, the consideration should be general) and respond accordingly.

ErrolTheDragon · 04/02/2019 22:42

People do get discriminated against all the time on the basis of protected characteristics

But in this case the relevant protected characteristic, for which E.A. exemptions may apply, is sex, not gender reassignment. It's the protected characteristic of the vulnerable group the charity is helping whose needs should take priority, surely.

If this would-be volunteer truly wishes to help then maybe there's some appropriate role.

CroneXX · 04/02/2019 22:20

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AngryAttackKittens · 04/02/2019 21:44

I'd tell them that you don't need anyone at the moment without telling them why, because this person is so obviously fishing for either validation (which you're not required to provide them with) or a potential payout when you tell them no. As tempting as it is to tell them off grey rock may be the best path.

CowJumping · 04/02/2019 21:33

It’s validation, pure and simple.

I start to feel sorry for such people, so desperate to be accepted as that which they can really be.

MonicaBellucci · 04/02/2019 21:13

Thank you CharlieParley

SonicVersusGynaephobia · 04/02/2019 20:56

It would be interesting to ask what area they think their skills are best suited, and why.

But I'd just ignore the request for as long as possible, because I think we all know what is going on here.

But the Equality Act 2010 does permit males (inc with a GRC) to be excluded.

BlackForestCake · 04/02/2019 20:53

People do get discriminated against all the time on the basis of protected characteristics and there is little anyone can do unless the employer is stupid enough to say that that's the reason.

"We don't want any black/gay/old people here" –> get sued.

"We had a number of candidates who we feel are a better fit" –> don't get sued.

GenderIsAPrison · 04/02/2019 20:34

And general inertia

GenderIsAPrison · 04/02/2019 20:34

Could your friend not just let the request disappear into a black hole of bureaucracy and ‘from pillar to post’ and stonewalling (sorry for pun)?

CharlieParley · 04/02/2019 19:30

That last paragraph is evident of the change in the guidance the EHRC puts out. Previously their position was to completely ignore the fact that a male without a GRC was legally male and to advise that they had a right to access female-only spaces and could be excluded only on a case by case basis and that GRC holders couldn't be excluded at all.

EHRC quietly also deleted relevant passages in their guidance to businesses. The reference to the legal sex of males without a GRC is obscure, but what it means is that you are not discriminating against a trans-identifying male without a GRC if you are excluding that male from female-only spaces if all others who are legally male are also excluded.

user1471451327 · 04/02/2019 19:27

Currently a volunteer or prospective volunteer cannot bring a Discrimination claim as they are not a “worker” under the Equality Act. See the case of X v Mid Sussex CAB 2012 UKSC59

MonicaBellucci · 04/02/2019 19:08

^^ That's the June 30th 2018 amendment by the way.

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