women at Girton College Cambridge aren’t allowed 1 hour out of 83 hours to swim in a female only environment

lucydo

Do tell us how to spot the predators because that way we will just know who is going to rape and assault us and then we can avoid them ......
(See how ridiculous that actually sounds ??)

Not all men are rapists, but all men have the capacity to rape, therefore basic safety teaches us- be wary of men, particularly be wary of men who are trying to cross our boundaries (ie following us at night, coming into women’s changing rooms, etc)

give me the statistics then?

lucydo Most people aren't burglars either. Your beliefs don't make any sense because they don't work in the real world.
The police don't agree with you.

''Police tell women to run in groups to avoid harassment''
www.runnersworld.com/uk/news/a26086303/police-jog-on-campaign/

so let's just treat all men as potential rapists?
FWIW, women can be incredibly annoying and lane-hogging to swim with. The ones who swim in parrallel, talking all the time, or just standing at the end of the pool, blocking your turning point.

I think the vast majority of men do not have a habit of harrassing women. It's silly to circumscribe your life because of a minority.

Whats the approximate statistics that women have been sexually abused in some form? One in four? Those 'minority' of men you talk if must be very busy.

men not me

But it is not rational for most women to be wary of men. Or helpful.

Go on then tell us how we can tell the rapists and abusers from the men who arent?

And it's not being wary of me, its being aware that some men are a threat.

Nah, not timidity.

I pay a lot each month to access a really nice private pool in a five star London hotel. Since I swim for relaxation and can afford it I can choose nice surroundings and a practically empty pool. (And posh shower gel.) I can understand why others might consider women’s only sessions less stressful and more enjoyable.

It’s said that boys in primary schools take up about 80% of the playground space. I am sure many women will have suffered man spreading on places trains and tubes. And my experience is that men do the same in swim lanes. Asking for time and space for women is not pathetic.

(Or is it that women who don’t adhere to a feminist orthodoxy are pathetic. It’s as if this board changed over the past couple of weeks and posters are more focused on purism and excluding, than addressing women’s wants and concerns.)

I think the vast majority of men do not have a habit of harrassing women. It's silly to circumscribe your life because of a minority.

Lucydo do you think women in the habit of harassing men to the point where they need 'respite' from women?

Yes, of course some women have good reasons to be wary of men. But it is not rational for most women to be wary of men. Or helpful.

What did the lifeguards say?

I didn't tell anyone about aggressive shouting man - I was too shocked, then embarrassed, he then got out and left. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but funnily enough I wasn't exactly prepared to be verbally abused when I went for a relaxing swim.

Well there were non about with creepy changing room man - there was one poolside when I got out but there wasnt any about in the changing room i assuming that there were busy closing up like theu usually do. Do you think i should have challenged a man who I perceived as a threat on my own with no witnesses about? I just wanted to get out of there.

I went to tell the lifeguards about leery group of men but as i got out i overhead someone else telling them and i left by the time the lifeguard went over to them.

Tbh the first two incidences were a couple of years ago, i wasnt feeling confident in myself (hence going swimming to help with that!) was embarrassed and didn't feel like I'd be believed or taken seriously. I've upped my game since but I'm not daft I'm not ever going to challenge a man directly whilst on my own in a secluded area.

Do you think the men who go to hampstead mens pond are "pathetic", lucydo?

Or do you reserve that for women who have a different line in the sand to you.

Why don't you read the pose 2 above yours lucydo for my asnwer to

do men deserve a space of their own.

fwiw we also have dads and babies things round here and also various clubs for elderly men. These are men only. I have never met anyone who had any issue with that and I'd think anyone who did was a bit weird TBH.

I stayed on a mixed ward in a hosp when I was 18.

I was the only female there.

It was not a comfortable experience but nothing bad happened past a lot of staring.

At the time, I would have said that any woman or girl who didn't want to be on a ward because there were men on it, was patheric.

I was 18. I have grown up somewhat, had some more life experience and developed a bit of empathy.

Now I would not say that at all.

You see, when I was 18 I would have thought you were sexist, hopelessly fearful, and yes pathetic, lucydo.

We live and learn though. Or at least some of us do.

out of interest, do posters think that men are entitled to respite from women? It's only recently that all-male golf clubs have allowed women to join. When I was a student in Edinburgh, several pubs were male-only. Should we have thought that was normal and OK? After all, they did need a respite from women?

Pathetic. Well there it is. I can't get my head anyone who thinks that women are pathetic for wanting a short respite from harassment, or who have very good reason to be wary of men. It doesn't sound like you think very much of women at all.

"and yes, I would be perfectly happy to make Hampstead Pools all mixed..."

So you, a woman, would be "perfectly happy" to remove a very famous gay friendly male space in london that has oodles of history attached to it, and to a similar extent a lesbian space.

You think that you have the right to casually say. Oh Yes, open this up to women. Women should be here...

Recently some women did go there, to show up the issues with the (non) rules at the womens pond, and the men were not happy. Not happy at all.

I am FINE with men having continued use of this space.

Why are you not? And why do you see it as something that is to do with you? You're not a gay man who uses the ponds, yet you feel quite comfortable to say they should have it taken away.

" What I would fight for is women-only spaces in prisons, hospitals, and refuges. Where women NEED seperate spaces."

So your line in the sand is different.
Plenty of women see no problem with mixed sex wards, as an example. Why are you right and they wrong?

I have met a lot of poeple in my life who say "there's my way and the wrong way" and I am getting that feeling very strongly right now.

speaking as another Octavia Hill fan... where did I want to say that we should be more 'manly than men'? It's so weird having a woman write that as an insult. It's takes me back to the days when women used to be called 'man haters' if they were a tiny bit assertive.
I swim, and have done for decades, 2 or 3 times a week in public and private pools.
We'll have to agree to differ on this, as I really, really don't think being wary of a mixed sex environment is reasonable. It's pathetic. And, don't forget, how do you think the wrong sort of men (who are a tiny minority) like women to be? Timid. And this is timidity.

Surely freedom includes being able to have a preference for women’s only swimming sessions.

I don’t know how much swimming Lucydo does, but men really do hog lanes and often have little regard for women’s space. (Trying to think of a swimming word for man spreading.) Others may have cultural, body image, or safety concerns. They should be allowed these. But can’t women just have their own hour because women only sessions are more relaxing. Why should women be expected to sacrifice their own preferences, simply because feminists tell them to. Women’s rights to me are about women being to assert their preferences and needs. Not having to prove you are more manly than men. And perhaps the Victorians got some things right. (Bit of an Octavia Hill fan myself.)

No one is suggesting retreating from men, and promoting the idea that women and men must be separate at all times, as some kind of feminism theory.

Having single sex swim sessions is nothing like that, and not the start of any kind of slippery slope. By forcing all activities to be mixed sex you make everything male dominated. Women who want a short respite from men should be able to have that. Especially for something like physical activity which is a healthy thing to do, if those women might not otherwise participate.

Of course the swimming staff should police mixed sessions and make sure that any overt poor behaviour is identified and the perpetrators warned/banned. That can be done alongside having single sex sessions.

I am well fed up of this attitude that if women have reasonable justification for being wary of mixed sex environments that they are somehow regressive or weak. It's a horrible attitude to have towards women.

the idea that women can solve all the issues they face by having some more balls. boy, you're really going in for misinterpreting me aren't you? I NEVER SAID THAT.
Of course we will struggle and fail, but we'll also struggle and win.
Retreating from these problems will solve nothing.

@Needmoresleep I don't think that Lucydo's idea of feminism is typical, the idea that women can solve all the issues they face by having some more balls.

Not that there is anything wrong with women being strong, of course.

"sounds like feminists would trample over grannies to prove how tough and man like they are." - this is a total misrepresentation of any kind of feminism. Feminism is not about making women man like.

tell me where I said that women are responsible for these issues? But yes, women are responsible for sorting them out. Of course we all are as women. Who else? The alternative that is being proposed here is to retreat from the society of men. And if that isn't regressing to the Victorian era, I don't know what is.

Feminism was about women being strong,

The more I learn about feminism from people on this board, the moreI am relieved that I have never claimed to be a feminist. It sounds like feminists would trample over grannies to prove how tough and man like they are.

So back to the OP.

Some women like to have single sex swimming sessions. Right or wrong they find single sex sessions more enjoyable. They are asking for one hour a week.

Why, why why, do feminists demand that these young women behave like feminists. Perhaps these women are sick of being told what they should want, by either men or feminists. What is wrong with them making a simple request and having it granted. It won’t do anyone else any harm.