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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Corbyn and adviser split over biological reality. Times Article

39 replies

Katvonfelttipeyebrows · 03/02/2019 07:49

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/corbyn-and-policy-adviser-in-split-over-transgender-women-dz97pw7mq?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1549160612

The comments on Facebook are good. People continue to wake up to what is happening.

Anyone got a share token?

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howonearthdidwegethere · 03/02/2019 09:54

I'm doubly worried reading that quote from Labour. That's worse than just wanting to amend the GRA to move to sex self-ID.

Rosa Freedman is quite clear that 'gender identity' is too vague a term to hold water as a legal definition. As it is, 'gender reassignment' is pretty vague, given the GRA does not insist on any form of medical or surgical 'reassignment' in order to change legal sex.

ErrolTheDragon · 03/02/2019 09:45

I'm not sanguine about how this might be interpreted(this isn't an area where logic seems to be applied); I'm saying that changing the description re gender characteristics shouldn't have any bearing on sex based exemptions.

Victoriapestis · 03/02/2019 09:37

I had a look at the Equality Act after reading this article. I think it is entirely unclear how the exemptions would work if the change to ‘gender identity’ was made. I am not as sanguine as errol.

If Labour want to make a change in this area, then instead of saying what words they want to change in legislation, they should say what policy objectives they want to achieve- for instance, we want all women’s spaces to be open to men who identify as women, we want to ensure women have to accept personal care from men who identify as women, we want to ensure all protections offered to women are also open to men who identify as women, etc.

They don’t do this for 2 reasons. First, because they know these policy objectives are vote losers. And second, because their thoughts are so incoherent they can’t spell out what their policy really is because they don’t know it themselves. They just mouth platitudes about changing particular words and resist at all costs saying what they think the effect of this will be.

Politicians need to be put under pressure to state their objectives, not just opaquely say what words they want to change in legislation. It is their not being honest about this that is allowing TRAs to threaten women’s rights.

Popchyk · 03/02/2019 09:21

He's been saying this sort of stuff for years. Very measured and reasonable.

Can't think why what he said in 2017 is "news" now.

Must be a campaign afoot to denounce him from within Labour. One of many denunciations that are going on in order to put women and Jews particularly in their place. Men who speak up for women and Jews? We will harass you in order to deter others from doing so.

Really sad to see this in Labour. Even if they did a complete reverse ferret and got rid of Corbyn, I'd never trust them an inch again. This is who they are. Believe it.

Oh, and it is "gender reassignment" in the Equality Act, you dimbos. Not gender assignment.

Barracker · 03/02/2019 09:13

Lachlan is a jolly decent chap and all round good egg.
He's been a brilliant ally for a long time and has had the integrity to hold firm to his beliefs despite the rabid insanity of his party that "TWAW nodebate."

I'm not sure why the story has broken today.
I'm off to twitter to thank him for his courage.

ErrolTheDragon · 03/02/2019 08:58

Surprising news that Corbyn still has a rational advisor left (for now...)

Some good comments on the sunday times piece... apart from the GC ones, I do agree that this should not be what Corbyn should be wasting time thinking about now, with brexit looming.

ChattyLion · 03/02/2019 08:58

But I digress:

The Labour Party said: “We don’t comment on staffing matters. A Labour government will reform the Gender Recognition Act and the Equality Act 2010 to ensure they protect trans people by changing the protected characteristic of ‘gender assignment’ to ‘gender identity’.”

What protections do trans people not already have?
This is a dangerous party policy.
Sex must remain a protected category under the EA and legal self-ID is wrong.

GCAcademic · 03/02/2019 08:57

...What’s that? Voiced in 2017 and Lachlan is still in his normal paid Labour Party job post, you say?

Quite. Women subjected to witch hunts, inquisitions, and pushed out of the Party for saying no more than Lachlan has.

Says everything about the entrenched misogyny in Corbyn’s “movement”.

ChattyLion · 03/02/2019 08:52

Good on you Lachlan Stuart for telling the truth - thank you and I wish more Labour staffers were like you. and good on you The Times for reporting on it.

I don’t want to assume Lachlan’s sex of course.... but let’s assume he is male... I wonder what pile on and punishment will follow for him given what Labour women have faced for saying these same things. Visits from the police maybe? Calls to be expelled from the party? Being placed on a probably illegal data protection-free shitlist designed to kick ‘TERF’s out of Labour?

...What’s that? Voiced in 2017 and Lachlan is still in his normal paid Labour Party job post, you say?

How on earth can this be, Jeremy?

Almost as if the Labour Party can actually really tell very easily who’s a man and who’s a woman isn’t it? Hmm
And that Labour really do seem to use that biological difference as the basis for a being massively sexist and discriminatory? Hmm

ErrolTheDragon · 03/02/2019 08:34

That’s all women's spaces fucked then

It really shouldn't be, as long as it's crystal clear that this 'gender identity' characteristic is completely separate from the protected characteristic of sex, and that exemptions to the E.A. which allow for separate facilities for women relate to sex not 'gender identity'.

The more nebulous and wide the gender characteristic is, the further away from the concept of 'sex change', the more obvious that should be.

Igneococcus · 03/02/2019 08:30

I can't see Labour under Corbyn winning an election despite the state of the other parties.

LizzieSiddal · 03/02/2019 08:23

The Labour Party said: “We don’t comment on staffing matters. A Labour government will reform the Gender Recognition Act and the Equality Act 2010 to ensure they protect trans people by changing the protected characteristic of ‘gender assignment’ to ‘gender identitY

That’s all women's spaces fucked then.Angry

Katvonfelttipeyebrows · 03/02/2019 08:05

Thank you!
Corbyn is such a weak person. What a crazy world we find ourselves in.

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