One politician says 'transgender is not a mental disorder' while another says 'being cisgender is a privilege'

QuietContraryMary
Yes - and I divide all US politicians into Trumpsters and non Trumpsters, thus losing all critical thinking capacity when it comes it comes to the non Trumpsters. Not any more though!

So 95.5% of the world’s population is privileged? She’s not very bright, is she?

QuietContraryMary AntheaGreenfern
Oh - I’d taken what she said at face value. Had better be a bit more cautious in future . Don’t think I’d have given a UK politician such an easy ride but was excited by the fact she was a young woman doing well in US politics.

I've seen that level of grovelling in others...it's what's expected of allies.

AOC exaggerates her background to an imo cringeworthy degree.

She has a very privileged background compared to most US citizens.

Maybe that's why she's deflecting.

In the US, girls as young as 13 are having double mastectomies because they think they're boys.
Thanks OldCrone - so this is not just puberty blocking. What happens if the 13 year old decides to detransition? Or even if they later decide to have a child and can’t ‘chest feed’ I keep on worrying this isn’t always about gender dysphoria but about societal pressures on girls.

Problem arises here from viewing power as a fixed property of individuals, rather than seeing power as fluid and dynamic. Though women are subjugated by patriarchy, we are able to exercise power, specifically because we are women. It’s necessarily complex.

Have got impression from this board that the whole puberty blocking/hormone thing for children is less controversial in the US than here.

In the US, girls as young as 13 are having double mastectomies because they think they're boys.

How is gender dysphoria any different, in this context, from any other disorder of self-perception such as depression?

The usual answer to this is that it's not a disorder, any more than being gay is a disorder. I can't remember what the response is when you point out that being gay doesn't require medication and surgery.

You know you're really good at emotional manipulation when you can persuade a Hispanic woman from a poor family to apologize for being too privileged.

Indeed Angry.

Women must apologise for being actual human beings taking up any space at all in this world and not thinking of everyone else before themselves.

She's a fucking entitled bitch and should check her privilege every time she has the audacity to open her over privileged mouth. /s

I fucking despair of this genderist bs, I really do.

Very true but this is actually becoming untrue with cosmetic surgery of all gruesome kinds being normalised

I agree. Although the women who get cosmetic surgery are , as I understand it, trying to make themselves feel more acceptable as a woman.

They don’t think the surgery actually makes them a woman. They would still be a woman without it.

I'm expecting to be told we must worship them next.

Spot on, it's scary innit?

Male
Female
Whatever your sexuality is
End of debate.
The rest of this jargon is trying to normalise the abbormal rather than help them. What next? Normalise schizophrenia and other mental disorders and let the sufferers get on with doing whatever they want without intervention? As for politicians, self serving scum of the Earth looking for any opportunity to further their profile/career. Id rather take advice from a fortune cookie than take note of anything any of them have to say.

The thing is, I can see that it must be excruciatingly difficult to grow up in very rigid gender stereotypes, or indeed be genuinely dysphoric.

But that doesn't mean that women should feel 'bad' or privileged as a result. They're still a victim of those sex and gender stereotypes.

I fully understand the check your privilege thing but every one's lives are individual and unique. How can female 'cis privilege' be checked against someone who decides they're trans when many women and girls are victims of csa?

It's a naive woke point vote scoring statement.

Unfortunately I may have thought/ done the same at her age/ B.M.N. (before mumsnet).

Last time I checked, being a woman,... doesn’t require medical treatment to “fix” your body.

Very true but this is actually becoming untrue with cosmetic surgery of all gruesome kinds being normalised.

You know you're really good at emotional manipulation when you can persuade a Hispanic woman from a poor family to apologize for being too privileged.

Exactly. Just wow.

You show me a woman who has never had some difficulty in her life because of her body and female sex and I will show you an n of 1.

You know you're really good at emotional manipulation when you can persuade a Hispanic woman from a poor family to apologize for being too privileged.

You made a comment about people who are “unfortunate enough” to suffer from gender dysphoria. That has very negative connotations,

How is gender dysphoria any different, in this context, from any other disorder of self-perception such as depression?

As a person who is "unfortunate enough" to suffer from depression, I think that that is a very appropriate expression.

When Ocasio Cortez was growing up, her mum worked as a cleaner and bus driver. AOC has worked in a bar herself - a very different background to most US politicians. It’s a clever tactic to accuse people of ‘cis privilege’ as ‘nice’ people, as I think AOC comes across, will immediately say yes they are more privileged than eg Charlotte Clymer who went to West Point, as neuro & invisible say. Was sad when she did the Mermaids thing but suspect she does not know much about them. Have got impression from this board that the whole puberty blocking/hormone thing for children is less controversial in the US than here.

I’m not cisgender because I reject gender and the negative effects its stereotypes have on both men and women.

Like all humans of either sex, I conform to some gender stereotypes associated with my sex but certainly not all. Perhaps I’m non-binary?

Yes Kat, there's nothing Leftwing or Socialist about it.

Very true, Neuro.

"This is the trick of the non-binary/agender label when harnessed by men: it’s a way of denying one’s own privilege by neutralizing sex and gender. Reality is overridden by an identity which is activated by mere thought and utterance. That identity is then sanctified and protected. Those who do not comply are policed and shamed. Quite simply, men like Kappel know they’ll be exposed if they dispute the existence of male privilege so they’ve finally found a way around it: male privilege exists but it doesn’t apply to them because they’re different. Presto! A get out of male free card. It may be hard to believe people are falling for it but they are, including women who consider themselves to be feminists."

lavenderblume.wordpress.com/2015/12/23/how-men-are-using-gender-identity-to-deny-male-privilege/