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Original poster

Courts and sexism

36 replies

BillStickersIsInnocent · 01/02/2019 21:12

Anyone want to talk about this with me?

I was on a jury recently, sexual assault case.

I was really surprised by the split of men and women - in the jury waiting area only 20% were women. Only 2 women were then selected on to the jury - me included.

In the court, the judge was male, as were both barristers. Some of the language used to describe the female prosecution witnesses was sexist - a fusspot, a gossip etc. This wasn’t challenged by the judge.

I feel angry about it and want to do something - but I don’t know what!

Some of the limited research I’ve read suggests women are more likely to convict in rape cases than men. But for other sexual assault cases I can’t find anything.

I’ve also tried to find out whether there are more male than female potential jurors - because caring responsibilities can excuse you, and women are more likely to be carers. But haven’t found anything on this.

OP posts:
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womanformallyknownaswoman · 03/02/2019 03:35

Structurally sexist because of their design

Love that descriptive phrase

Original poster
BillStickersIsInnocent · 02/02/2019 11:28

Thanks Honey, yes that’s exactly my point

OP posts:
HoneysuckIejasmine · 02/02/2019 11:22

It's worth noting of course that just because there's sexism, doesn't mean there's some moustache twirling villan some actively stealing jury duty letters from women's letter boxes. Institutions can be structurally sexist because of their design. This needs to be recognised and tackled. It's not a personal slight on the people currently involved.

Original poster
BillStickersIsInnocent · 02/02/2019 11:22

So the research that’s quoted about females more likely to convict in sex crime cases appears to come from 1926, studying the impact of cases pre and post women being allowed to join juries.

core.ac.uk/download/pdf/43561690.pdf

I can’t find anything more up to date other than the Irish Times one mentioned above.

OP posts:
HoneysuckIejasmine · 02/02/2019 11:18

This one.

Courts and sexism
HoneysuckIejasmine · 02/02/2019 11:17

Your ideas is even worse! You activrlt promote sexism!

Erm... Hmm. It's sexist to try to ensure that juries themselves (as opposed to the juror pool) are 50:50? Ok. Where's that graphic of the people stood on boxes by a fence when you need it.

OP posts:
MargueritaPink · 02/02/2019 11:11

Some of the limited research I’ve read suggests women are more likely to convict in rape cases than men. But for other sexual assault cases I can’t find anything

This is Ireland but the findings here are the opposite. Male dominated juries more likely to convict in rape cases.

www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/women-under-represented-on-juries-in-serious-criminal-trials-1.3156886?mode=amp

www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/stanford-rape-case-female-dominated-juries-less-likely-to-convict-in-rape-cases-
404525.html

Their study showed that female-dominated juries did not convict of rape in any case, and the male- dominated juries had a higher conviction rate

Original poster
BillStickersIsInnocent · 02/02/2019 11:11

Yes - been reading about doing away with juries for sex crimes, think NZ has done this already?

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womanformallyknownaswoman · 02/02/2019 11:07

Rape myths are actually real thing as research has proved - some don’t change pre-conceived biases despite any weight of evidence - the legal system is not fit for purpose for crimes against women and children

Gronky · 02/02/2019 10:58

This was very interesting (preliminary) reading:
assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/571736/infographic-women-cjs.pdf

If anyone has trend data, it would be very interesting to see if the imprisonment gap is changing over time.

WitchesHatRim · 02/02/2019 10:57

When I did jury service, not that long ago, there were more women than men.

userschmoozer · 02/02/2019 10:52

If the end result is fewer women are involved, its not paranoia, it is sexism. The system is biased and produces an uneven result.

If that is a problem then its perfectly reasonably to want an adjustment.

Original poster
BillStickersIsInnocent · 02/02/2019 10:49

No, that would be positive action to correct the disadvantages women face.

OP posts:
Original poster
BillStickersIsInnocent · 02/02/2019 10:48

Well yes it is sexist if the potential juror pool isn’t representative. But I haven’t been able to find any research into this, hence my questions.

Why so aggressive?

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TeeJay1970 · 02/02/2019 10:47

Honey

Your ideas is even worse! You activrlt promote sexism!

TeeJay1970 · 02/02/2019 10:46

The title says 'Courts and Sexism' and the first point you make is about more men than women. Either your post is badly written you or think jury selection is sexist.

HoneysuckIejasmine · 02/02/2019 10:42

TeeJay I understood her to mean that even if the random selection produces 50:50 sex representation, the exemptions are generally related to activities females are more likely to be involved in, and so the 50:50 ratio is not carried forward in to the actual jury. Perhaps it would be better to select 40:60 in favour of women, knowing that a portion of them will be exempt and you're more likely to end up with 50:50 on the actual jury.

Original poster
BillStickersIsInnocent · 02/02/2019 10:41

TeeJay I’m merely thinking about the sex split of the potential juror pool - as in my OP.

I was wondering whether fewer women than men, across the piece, were available for jury service because of caring responsibilities might limit women’s ability to serve.

My experience of the sex split made me wonder about whether any research had carried out into this and also what impact an unequal jury had on conviction rates of sexual assault cases.

My experience of the language used in the court room by barristers made me wonder more broadly about sexism and representation and the impact on female victims.

It seems Helena Kennedy has written a book about it, so I don’t think I’m being paranoid. I’m not suggesting a conspiracy - more systemic issues.

OP posts:
TeeJay1970 · 02/02/2019 10:33

The OP is implying that there is sexism in the way people are selected for jury service.

This is nonsense.

The system does not deliberately select more men than women.

In the room you were in there may have been more men than women I'm sure but to suggest this is sexism and that the system selects more men than women for rape cases is just paranoid.

OP please clarify what point you are making about jury selection.

Original poster
BillStickersIsInnocent · 02/02/2019 10:06

Lisa that was my experience too. I felt so angry that it’s so bloody difficult to get sexual assault cases to court in the first place, and then when these brave women do it it’s a terrible environment and no one believes them anyway.
But Catsize glad it’s changing, if slowly.

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Catsize · 02/02/2019 09:28

I've been a (female) barrister for 20-odd years. It isn't perfect, but it's improving. When I started, there was a LOT of casual sexism in the robing room, which extended to the courtroom. That is far less frequent now, although it does happen. Their perception amongst the profession is that women are harder on female victims and more likely to acquit of sexual crimes.
The female:male ratio at my level is theoretically 1:2, but I think there are fewer women than that in the areas where I work. It is virtually impossible to do this job unless one parent is at home, and society so far expects that will be the woman.

lisamuggeridge · 02/02/2019 09:12

Court system is misogynistic, judiciary are pale, male and stale, and the unspeakable truth about grooming before the public mood changed was that a jury was an almost guarantee that a girl wouldnt be believed or if she was, what happened wouldnt be a problem. A friend of mine was on jury duty a few years ago, and was appalled at some of the things that were said. There are some great legal academics who look at this, and challenge this and keeping an eye on what Lady Hale says but doesnt say is quite interesting.

AssassinatedBeauty · 01/02/2019 22:01

When I did jury service, a few years ago now, the judge and the barristers were male. The mix on the jury was majority men but I think there were 3 other women apart from me. I felt very aware when having discussions that I felt everyone should have the opportunity to contribute and have their say. Thankfully I was foreperson and was able to facilitate that!

BathTangle · 01/02/2019 21:59

And yet if you look at the Magistrates Courts, we regularly have an entirely female courtroom: it's not unusual to have an all-female bench (3 women), female Legal Advisor (Clerk), female prosecutor and female defence solicitor. It is interesting to consider why this doesn't continue further up the legal system.

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